Author Topic: Catholic Church "Miracles"  (Read 6436 times)

Re: Catholic Church "Miracles"
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2020, 06:29:48 PM »
"You give me the awful impression, I hate to have to say it, of someone who hasn't read any of the arguments against your position ever."
-Hitch

Re: Catholic Church "Miracles"
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2020, 06:52:23 PM »
Did you even bother to read what you posted??

Yes.

Your post mainly consists of conjecture and little else. '... I've heard the catholic church.....'; '...probably scientists...';

I agree. I have presented no hard evidence, because no one asked for it yet.

Those statements are clearly just your wishful believing (not thinking for you have no evidence of doing that--think).

I think that those sentences could be better written. Also, what? Did you just insult me? I am no believer, but even if I was, would I have to endure this pointless childish behavior you're displaying? Does raising a question makes you look bad here?

The church 'scientists' have a detailed and rigorous set of standards?  Really!?

I have been told so, yes.

what are they?

Well, honestly, to one freethinker to another, I have not researched this question properly to answer that. Thus, that's why I did not CLAIM anything, I simply questioned it.
 
How do you know the church does 'extensive investigations????

Again, I will have to document that to make such a claim, but thankfully I never did (yet). I can look it up, if you want to. If I am unable to find anything, you are free to (further) mock me.

What do you think a 'scientist' is?

I accept the usual definition(s).

In your belief system is it somebody the chruch gives that title to????

What do you ASSUME my belief system is?

A scientist is one who studies a topic using the scientific method--which means when a scientist proclaims that a theory is correct, he makes that data available to his peers so they can test it and see it is correct.

So, are you saying only peer-reviewed science is 'real' science?

I know the church does not do that.

I guess we will have to find out! If you ARE claiming something, however, you have to provide evidence for it.

And you would not know a 'skeptical procedure' if you met one.

I appreciate the nice little insults. They're subtle enough, but unfortunately they don't add much to the discussion. While we're at it, are you a dogmatic materialist? 

Once again, your 'proof' is simply wishful believing.

I have no proof. Never claimed I did.

And like the good little shepple you are,

You mean 'sheep'? I am just one person. The fuck?!?

you simply swallow and wallow in all that the chruch tells you to swallow.

If you're that delusional to think I am Catholic, then perhaps we should not continue this conversation. It would be like talking to a brick wall.

Re: Catholic Church "Miracles"
« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2020, 06:54:19 PM »
"You give me the awful impression, I hate to have to say it, of someone who hasn't read any of the arguments against your position ever."
-Hitch

Dear Cassia, I generally respect you, but what exactly is the point of this post? What are you trying to claim?

Re: Catholic Church "Miracles"
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2020, 07:06:01 PM »
Dear Cassia, I generally respect you, but what exactly is the point of this post? What are you trying to claim?
It is a quote from Christopher Hitchens, an author who speaks plainly about my former church.

Re: Catholic Church "Miracles"
« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2020, 08:53:21 PM »
It is a quote from Christopher Hitchens, an author who speaks plainly about my former church.


Thanks for explaining it. Regarding the video, I understand that Hitchens makes many great points, but I am not entirely confortable with it, either. Why the need to insult priests (or nuns, or whatever) because of the fact that they are ''virgins''? What's wrong with being a virgin? I feel that insult rather personally, too (maybe that's the reason I am taking issue with it, admittedly), because if it wasn't for the escorts/call girls that I ocasionally go out with, I would still be a virgin to this day (26 years old), being a very shy guy and all.

Maybe I am misunderstanding the late Hitchens or something?
« Last Edit: December 12, 2020, 08:54:53 PM by Paolo »

Offline Baruch

Re: Catholic Church "Miracles"
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2020, 09:20:10 PM »
BUT I've heard the Catholic Church just doesn't accept any claim of miracles, the 'experts', among them probably scientists, of the Church, evaluate those claims, and have very detailed and rigorous standards for their acceptance. It's only THEN, after extensive investigation, that the Church claims: ''It was, indeed, a miracle''.

Sounds like a skeptical procedure to me...

They are scholars, not scientists of course.  They follow the same standards of hundreds of years ago (to at least screen out Catholics who are too enthusiastic about a particular apparition.

Everyone is a genius here except you - what they say to anyone ;-)  Don't take it personally.

"Pope Francis commits to net zero emissions by 2050" ... nobody on Earth can drive, except for the Popemobile.  Because he wears a funny hat.  This Pope is actually an anti-Pope .. Pope Benedict was couped.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2020, 09:29:22 PM by Baruch »
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Re: Catholic Church "Miracles"
« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2020, 09:30:37 PM »
Everyone is a genius here except you - what they say to anyone ;-)  Don't take it personally.

I understand that some so-called 'skeptics' are more dogmatic than their religious counterparts, unfortunately.

Offline Baruch

Re: Catholic Church "Miracles"
« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2020, 09:41:33 PM »
I understand that some so-called 'skeptics' are more dogmatic than their religious counterparts, unfortunately.

I take an anthropological point of view.  The Catholic Church exists, it is really too big to ignore ;-)  I don't care if Our Lady of Medjugorje is scientific or not.  Reality isn't objective, it is subjective ... all the really important parts are.  If people saw an apparition, and interpreted it as the the Virgin, I am OK with that (the fact that they claim it and interpret it).  Strange things do happen.  Of course many of the regular processional miracles of olden times were magic tricks for the ignorant .. part of the excitement for the attendees.  I love magic tricks myself.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Re: Catholic Church "Miracles"
« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2020, 09:51:33 PM »
BUT I've heard the Catholic Church just doesn't accept any claim of miracles, the 'experts', among them probably scientists, of the Church, evaluate those claims, and have very detailed and rigorous standards for their acceptance. It's only THEN, after extensive investigation, that the Church claims: ''It was, indeed, a miracle''.

Sounds like a skeptical procedure to me...
Okay, Paolo, I've been too hard on you it seems.  I have read many, many questions/observations written by theists, some identified themselves as such and others who do not and are interested in some silly game of 'gotya'.  I read it to mean you were a defender of the catholic church--I was wrong to read it that way.  But, I don't really think what you describe as being a skeptical procedure in any way.

And yes, peer review is important to forming a factual theory.  In the scientific community 'factual' and 'theory' is redundant, since that is what a theory is--a provable statement.  And other scientists (well, anybody) can review it and understand that that is a factual statement.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Baruch

Re: Catholic Church "Miracles"
« Reply #24 on: December 12, 2020, 09:55:17 PM »
Okay, Paolo, I've been too hard on you it seems.  I have read many, many questions/observations written by theists, some identified themselves as such and others who do not and are interested in some silly game of 'gotya'.  I read it to mean you were a defender of the catholic church--I was wrong to read it that way.  But, I don't really think what you describe as being a skeptical procedure in any way.

And yes, peer review is important to forming a factual theory.  In the scientific community 'factual' and 'theory' is redundant, since that is what a theory is--a provable statement.  And other scientists (well, anybody) can review it and understand that that is a factual statement.

Peer review works sometimes.  But politics and egos and group think etc get in the way.  No human or organization is dispassionate or without total depravity.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Re: Catholic Church "Miracles"
« Reply #25 on: December 12, 2020, 10:00:05 PM »
The reference to virgins is merely (a) sarcastic...what gives the right for self-proclaimed virgins to judge and persecute people on their sexual preferences and (b) ironic... because priests that are busy raping children are not really virgins anyways.

The protecting of rapist priests goes on and on.

Re: Catholic Church "Miracles"
« Reply #26 on: December 12, 2020, 10:07:09 PM »
Just in case anyone wants to check on your local (US only) clergy. In my church a priest was raping girls as he was performing exorcisms on them. Imagine trying to recover from that. He confessed at least.
https://bishop-accountability.org/priestdb/PriestDBbylastName-A.html
« Last Edit: December 12, 2020, 10:15:17 PM by Cassia »

Re: Catholic Church "Miracles"
« Reply #27 on: December 12, 2020, 10:39:04 PM »
The whole god created a universe so he could sacrifice himself to himself to appease himself to save us from himself is pretty wacked. But then again Brahma is the creator of the universe and of all beings, as depicted in the Hindu cosmology. Which one to believe? Ah I see it depends where you are born and who raised you. Seems like a path to truth?

Re: Catholic Church "Miracles"
« Reply #28 on: December 12, 2020, 10:50:15 PM »
I don't believe in miracles because I don't believe in the supernatural. Are there amazing, wonderful things that happen in the world that I can't explain?  Absolutely. I don't pretend to have an explanation for certain unusual events but people who believe in miracles do. They claim to know it was supernatural intervention by a deity rather than a more mundane explanation. They are highly invested in their explanation, where I am perfectly comfortable acknowledging I have no explanation.
“You are the sky. Everything else – it’s just the weather.”

― Pema Chödrön

Offline Baruch

Re: Catholic Church "Miracles"
« Reply #29 on: December 13, 2020, 07:41:20 AM »
The whole god created a universe so he could sacrifice himself to himself to appease himself to save us from himself is pretty wacked. But then again Brahma is the creator of the universe and of all beings, as depicted in the Hindu cosmology. Which one to believe? Ah I see it depends where you are born and who raised you. Seems like a path to truth?

Jews agree.  Gentiles are damned by birth ;-)  At least in Hinduism you get more than one chance to be born Jewish ;-)

There is no path to truth, because it is all lies.  Generation to generation, the blind leading the blind.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2020, 07:58:08 AM by Baruch »
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.