Author Topic: Conspiracy Theory  (Read 2392 times)

Offline SGOS

Conspiracy Theory
« on: December 07, 2020, 09:14:56 AM »
Why do people believe in election fraud this year?  This article resonated with me.  I've often wondered why conspiracy theories spread and become commonplace.  And this brief opinion piece put much of my own thoughts into writing.  My first thought is that conspiracy theories are fun, just like believing in the supernatural is fun.  It's what drives people's interest in many horror films.  The unproven is even fun for me. 

Conspiracy theories thrive on a knowledge vacuum.  If you do not know if something is true or not true, there is a certain attraction to accepting a conspiracy theory as true because you can't prove it's not true.  It's not just fun.  In a perverse way it's also fashionable to talk about anything from crop circles to the deep state, as if you are actually knowledgeable and "privy" to little known insider "truths."

It's true that there have been conspiracies that were real.  Nixon's cover up being one, but actual conspiracies on a large scale are almost always unproven.  It's very hard for a group larger than three people to keep their mouths shut.

Gossip is fun, and conspiracy is great gossip.  An if a certain theory supports your own odd narrative, and you are predisposed to believing what you cannot know, you become deeply involved in an absence of factual information.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/05/opinion/sunday/trump-election-fraud.html?campaign_id=39&emc=edit_ty_20201207&instance_id=24784&nl=opinion-today&regi_id=129705843&segment_id=46252&te=1&user_id=33a2a6e6868fd65c48b0f219d16ed7c2

Quote
The conspiracy-curious normie

I say “normie” to reflect the reality that being open to the possibility of conspiracies is itself extremely normal and commonplace. There is nothing unusual, statistically speaking, about believing that a Cold War-era deep state assassinated John F. Kennedy or that the government is concealing evidence of U.F.O.s. Conspiracy theories are common among Democrats as well as Republicans: Witness the polling on Russia’s supposed tampering with vote totals in 2016 or George W. Bush’s supposed foreknowledge of the Sept. 11 attacks; recall the voting-machine theory spun to explain John Kerry’s narrow defeat in 2004.

This means you don’t need a complex story about Facebook or Fox News to understand why a person who isn’t intensely political might nonetheless be open to the idea that an election settled by tens of thousands of votes in a few key states was actually fixed for the winner. That kind of openness is just human nature — and not the worst part of human nature, either, given that conspiracies and cover-ups exist (the military really has been hiding weird evidence of U.F.O.s!) and even wrongheaded theories often partake of a reasonable skepticism about elite malfeasance, from the Gulf of Tonkin era to the Jeffrey Epstein case.

This year's election tampering is classic.  Trump's lawyers have brought charges to court without any evidence of truth based on Trump's claims without evidence.  Believing in the unproven is satisfying I'm sure.  And it's satisfying to Trump and his deplorables.  But if your objective is to bring down democracy or grab power, either shit or get off the pot.

Offline Baruch

Re: Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2020, 09:32:01 AM »
Election fraud is true every year.  Democracy is a way to fool the Deplorables into thinking they have a choice.  Elections exist to ensure regular change of power among elites.  The US isn't a democracy, it is a republic, same as Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union (aka we don't have a king).  Elections prevent irregular change of power thru coup (see anti-Trumpers 2016), revolution (see Nazis and commies) or rebellion (see Democrats).  As a republic the US is a violently militant threat to the rest of the world (which is why bringing the US further onto the world stage was the second biggest mistake the Europeans made, the first being attempted suicide, twice).

It is completely rational, that political parties are organized crime syndicates (trying to control political machinery for fun and profit, great machinery being more attractive).  Crime syndicates are always involved in actual conspiracy to commit felonies (where is Jimmy Hoffa?).  The Media has been complicit from the beginning, going back to the election of 1800 at least, telling half truths and lies and encouraging partisanship.  It was the Federalists, Washington and Adams, who were the last non-partisan leaders.  Jefferson (south vs north east) created partisanship by running against and defeating the second term of John Adams.  Early partisanship led to the formation of the two parties we have today, the Democrats being founded by President Jackson (west vs north east) ... the Republicans going back to the National Republican Party founded by John Quincy Adams to oppose President Jackson (north east vs west).

People who think otherwise, in any country, simply ignore the reality of organized crime.  The Democrats claims to be G-d's chosen is BS of course, same as the opposite Republican claim (US is a mostly Christian country, atheism is minor here).  As an Independent for the last 25 years, I was the one selling popcorn (not Corn Pop).  Switch hitters are hated in baseball by pitchers.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2020, 09:36:43 AM by Baruch »
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Re: Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2020, 01:11:04 PM »
Society is bifurcated, and the only support the fringe has is "lies, and rumors of lies".
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline Baruch

Re: Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2020, 01:26:37 PM »
Society is bifurcated, and the only support the fringe has is "lies, and rumors of lies".

Fringe is kosher if it is tzitzil ;-)  Welcome to 1860 ;-(
« Last Edit: December 08, 2020, 02:14:06 PM by Baruch »
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Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
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Don't do that.

Offline Mr.Obvious

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Re: Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2020, 04:09:51 PM »
I believe 2020 itself is a catalyst in this. People are more isolated, driven to taking an even more online life, exposing them not only to more made up bullshit, but creating more of it themselves in turn. All the while simultaneously taking away both the daily distractions of work and social interactions to stop your brain from obsessing over dumb shit and taking away the relativating and grounding effects friends and family might have.
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Offline Draconic Aiur

Re: Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2020, 04:49:13 PM »
Because one party loses pretty much

Re: Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2020, 04:56:28 PM »
Religion has paved this road.

Offline Baruch

Re: Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2020, 05:26:10 PM »
Religion has paved this road.

Of course, worship of money ;-)  I love it myself.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Online drunkenshoe

Re: Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2020, 05:17:06 AM »
This is a caricature of what I read a little about and think. (I'm bored, I don't want to work.)

It's not the religion who paved the road exactly, but it's was the best material in its day -reformation vs counter reformation wars- and it has evolved something beyond that. Culturally, it's the literacy and spreading of literacy itself in Western civilisation that paved the road to the culture of conspiracy theories. Because secular or religous, it has a stereotype, and it hasn't changed much since the 17th century. It's the bloody fucked up transition to the written culture as we understand it. sure there has been a written culture for a long time but who did it belong to?

In a nutshell, as you may guess, after the printing press there wasn't just a rise in amount of printed material that got around but also people who can read them. And in time, this weird ability called reading went down to ordinary people who had no idea about the 'real' lives of the monarchs or the 'real' goals of certain religous groups and so called political wings who have been dictating their lives since which seemed like the dawn of time. Sure, there has always been rumours, sayings, this and that, and as the verbal culture was practically the only culture between them, and the legend of something scribbled on some surface meaning a lot was something beyond their reach, something they surely can't comprehend. Something they were detached.

Imagine a human being experiencing, trying to comprehend the idea for the first time that some little shapes juxtaposed on a little surface have meaning. (We don't usually look at it this way because whatever we've dealt, naturally, belongs to the pen holders of any time.) Yes they do see writings on ruins, churches...etc. But it is not the same thing, is it? Holding a paper with something written on it to mean something is very different.

This is the beginning of charlatanry. Writing gibberish words on little papers and sell them to people to wear around their necks so they won't get sick or they will get better. How do you know it is gibberish? What the clergy, the aristocracy, simply the learned men write and speak, sound and look gibberish too. It's looked that way for a looong time.

How can even the learned men know what is meaningless and hoax? There, somebody wrote a book called the 'Secret History of Jesuits'. Then another one wrote on about what kind of a slut Empress Thedora was. Another best seller was the Secret Love Life of Louis the 14th or then the secret life of Maria Antoinette. What did she say again? The secret lives, conspiracies of cardinals and popes, kings and queens...etc. Adultry, every kind of debauchery and infamy, oh my god. The wars. So those ones didnt attack the others but these ones attacked them but they forged letters and papers?!

Most importantly, countless dialogues, plays, romances, novels, stories written about wars and soldiers tied to real characters or implied the real characters, sometimes named after them, sometimes used ancient names to define them; writing about the present via the ancient past. Exactly like what Arthur Miller did with The Crucible to criticise the communist paranoia created by the US gov. in the 20th century. Think about the interest people showed to the book and movie called Da Vinci Code in the 21st century and imagine people reading something 'secret' or 'private' life about their king or queen or some pope, cardinal, high ranking soldier couple of hundred years ago.

Oook. Suddenly -of course not suddenly lol- it looks like these people put there by god to rule over us while not really different than us and they are the worst! They don't do things for the reasons they say they do, do they? Who knows what kind of stuff is going on back there in courts...churches, places...etc. Look at all the secret histories, memoirs and novels written! We are on to them. It's the Catholics, the Vatican! They have the money and the power. No, it is the Protestants! It's obviously Jesuits! They're everywhere. It's the Spanish! No, it was the Jews all alone! Nope, it's the Nazis. No, it's the communists! It's the CIA. It's the Mossad. It's the aliens! It's the Muslims. It's the feminists! No, it's the patriarchy! No, it is the Jews again. They have the sources and power. It's the Satanist! No, it is the illimunati. Ha! It's just the few families ruling the world for hundreds of years, they are the reptilians!

There are hundreds of books written and printed over and over again in the last 300 years with the title of Secret History of... They are all describing the same understanding and the fear in similar ways. There is this fear bucket and it gets filled whatever the fashion of the day is. Be it aliens or Jesuits or Communists.

According to the modern historians, most of the historical ones are completely made up. And you can read some of them online, they're pretty hilarious. Even paparazzi culture is the result of this, for example. What is going on behind the curtains somewhere, of someone rich and powerful, popular.   

The irony is this madness of making things up in fear in its historical struggle looks like the turmoil that gave birth to concepts of criticism and scepticism and the concept of context itself as we understand them. Modern understanding of the past; history, social disicplines... The rest is Not So Secret History of Human Bullshit. The history of Early modern Europe is so fucking crazy and bloody... we still know jack about it.

It's also a means of sanction. Today, the circle is very narrow and if you want to do something 'bad' you have to worry about whistleblowers, paparazzi...
« Last Edit: December 09, 2020, 05:28:08 AM by drunkenshoe »
"I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are good people and bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides." Havelock Vetinari

Offline SGOS

Re: Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2020, 07:27:32 AM »
Conspiracy theories are much like religions.  Both are based on incomplete thought processes, lack of reasoning skills, and a predisposition toward confusing belief with knowledge.  I don't know if I would say religion paves the way to conspiracy theories, but they are so similar that it's more like religion provides an excellent set of training wheels. 

Take religion out of the picture, and the "theories" would still exist, because they survive on human gullibility and our species' weakness for logical fallacies.  We have the capability to rise above nonsense, and some do, but most lack the motivation.

Re: Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2020, 08:36:14 AM »
The big problem with religion is that it is indoctrinated during the formative years of early childhood. Imagine for a moment if you please...what would the situation be like today if children were taught instead to think rationally and seek valid evidence and employ critical thinking from the get-go? If fairy tales were presented as delightful fantasy and that imagination is great fun but the earnest quest of truth will bring a much more fulfilling life than self-delusion.

Offline Baruch

Re: Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2020, 09:57:59 AM »
Really Left children should turn their parents into the commissars.  It was popular during the Cultural Revolution in China.  How dare parents raise children, only The Party can do that!

All atheists agree, Karl Marx is the real Magic Jew (conspiracy theory).

Recent interview/video where the Chinese admit everything regarding corruption in America.  They quickly took it down (failed to obey asymmetrical warfare rules of Sun Tzu).  Every American will sell their mother, for the right amount (except Trump .. he takes a lot more money to bribe probably).
« Last Edit: December 09, 2020, 12:36:15 PM by Baruch »
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Re: Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2020, 06:54:26 PM »
Why do people believe in election fraud this year?  This article resonated with me.  I've often wondered why conspiracy theories spread and become commonplace.  And this brief opinion piece put much of my own thoughts into writing.  My first thought is that conspiracy theories are fun, just like believing in the supernatural is fun.  It's what drives people's interest in many horror films.  The unproven is even fun for me.

Mostly for the same reason the other people believed in election fraud last time - they don't like it that they lost.
White privilege is being a lifelong racist, then being sent to the White House twice because your running mate is a minority.

No Biden, no KKK, no Fascist USA!

Offline Baruch

Re: Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2020, 07:37:06 PM »
Mostly for the same reason the other people believed in election fraud last time - they don't like it that they lost.

Worse, no human being can stand to be wrong.  It took millions of lives to prove to Italian and German voters, by 1946, that they were wrong!
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Online drunkenshoe

Re: Conspiracy Theory
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2020, 05:27:22 AM »
There is a significant amount of nonbelievers, and secular people who believe in every kind of conspiracy theories. Yeah...we all know what religion is. But for the last few decades or so it's started to be just convenient to blame it all on religion, if you ask me.

The answer is always the same, 'they're stupid and selfish'. It's exactly like the reaction people give whenever someone shoots random strangers around or in shcool. 'He is mentally ill' or 'Oh he was a pyscho'...etc. No, they are not. They are not stupid and the others are not mentally ill.

We miss something crucial with human nature as in terms of anthropology, we don't get it. 'Conspiracy theories are like religions' are not enough for me because organised religion has too many profits and benefits compared to these conapiracy theory groups. It's incomparable. Although, something tells me that if we looked we'd see that the latter has much higher education and income in average.


"I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are good people and bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides." Havelock Vetinari