Author Topic: halloween (samhain)  (Read 176 times)

halloween (samhain)
« on: October 16, 2020, 05:33:22 PM »
 Any one else feel like the reason we observe samhain has been destroyed or replaced by a society that doesn't remember the past or remember their ancestors any more? Am I the only one that still believes honoring the dead and remembering the past is still important? Halloween used to be about family and preparing for the "dark" half of the year,lighting bonfires (bonefires),leaving offerings for the dead at your doorstep, bringing in the crops, and carving faces in turnips to scare away evil spirits. The tradition of costumes was started so that  if you had to go out, the spirits wouldn't know who you were.  I know this was a long time a go,but I believe some traditions and customs shouldn't change. Am I the only one?

Offline Hydra009

Re: halloween (samhain)
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2020, 05:50:30 PM »
Valentine's:  chocolates
Mardi Gras:  partying, getting drunk
St Patrick's:  getting drunk
Easter: chocolates
Cinco de Mayo: getting drunk, mexican food
Halloween: HEAVY chocolates
Thanksgiving: lots and lots of food
Christmas: chocolates, general consumerism

Offline aitm

Re: halloween (samhain)
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2020, 07:06:13 PM »
Yeah, I am still pissed I can’t grab the neighbors goat and slice it’s throat over my bonfire. Peeps ruining traditions.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Offline Baruch

Re: halloween (samhain)
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2020, 10:12:01 PM »
Actually it would be nice for pagans to get some respect ... around here.  Secular Westerners are often secular pagans, not secular Christians in many cases.

But being only a wee bit Irish myself, I don't feel any attraction for the old Celtic paganism.  But I did enjoy the Book of Kells animated cartoon a few years back.  Blending paganism and Christianity.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Offline drunkenshoe

Re: halloween (samhain)
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2020, 05:23:15 AM »
Yeah, I get where you come from, but as it is with everything, Halloween too got domesticated by the time and the new culture(s).

For the 'original' Halloween -probably predates everything on the list, maybe not the first of May which has the same logic- to go on, we need the old world style human-nature relationship. That's not possible today, hasn't been for a looong time. Some of it is not even legal. We could create a similar celebration by ourselves, yes, it sounds cosy but it wouldn't live long.

Because the Western culture today generally dictates that 'ancient off day' is for adults about to get drunk, high and get laid; find an excuse to dress in scary, interesting, weird or slutty outfits and get together with a crowd you want/choose. But there are already many ocassions you can do all that in Western society anyway. There has been something called weekend and vacation for a long time. But the operative word is 'choice'. People have lots of choices right now compared to thousands and thousands of years ago. If you didn't have those choices it would be a bad thanks giving meal with family that you have to attend.

If, as a result of a global disaster, we lose the means of the modern civilisaton as we know; severe population loss, the production-consumption chain getting wiped out...people would naturally turn back to some sort of its form. Because it is the part of the natural calender.

It belongs to Dionysus. Achilleus has almost killed it. Almost. :p
« Last Edit: October 17, 2020, 06:08:56 AM by drunkenshoe »
"I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are good people and bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides." Havelock Vetinari

Offline Baruch

Re: halloween (samhain)
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2020, 11:37:28 AM »
Organic ethnic groups that self isolate or are geographically isolated, develop their own cultures.  Global consumerism is the opposite of that.  Think of the utopia of one world language, then assembly instructions won't have to be printed for each item in a dozen languages.  Save the trees, save the ink ;-)  Alexander liked this idea, so did Shi Huang Di and Caesar.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Offline SGOS

Re: halloween (samhain)
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2020, 12:03:58 PM »
At one time, Halloween was my favorite Holiday.  We didn't get that day off from school, but going to school in our costumes made up for it.  Knowing  what the origins of Halloween were back then may have wrecked the best day of the whole school year for me.

Offline Baruch

Re: halloween (samhain)
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2020, 04:01:56 PM »
At one time, Halloween was my favorite Holiday.  We didn't get that day off from school, but going to school in our costumes made up for it.  Knowing  what the origins of Halloween were back then may have wrecked the best day of the whole school year for me.

Still my favorite holiday, I know, I know ... has nothing to do with Christianity or Paganism for me.  Jewish costuming is for Purim in the Spring however.  We get together and damn all the Amalekites to hell (Haman being a stand in for the originals).  Jewish boy asks dad, "why are there so many Gentiles?"  Dad replies, "because hell isn't full yet ;-)"
« Last Edit: October 18, 2020, 04:03:39 PM by Baruch »
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Re: halloween (samhain)
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2020, 04:27:40 PM »
 I'm actually surprised at the number of responses that I got. I agree that we will never go back to any of those beliefs or customs, but sometimes I feel like I was born in the wrong century. Sometimes we as a culture (all the time really),we forget where we came from and forget about our past customs and beliefs. That is to our detriment as a society and I don't see that changing ever. Halloween will always be my favorite time of the year, and as I get older,I'm going to try and make our grandkids have some under standing about why I believe what I do,and hopefully pass some of these beliefs or customs, or what the true origin of halloween really is to the next generation.

Offline Baruch

Re: halloween (samhain)
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2020, 05:28:11 PM »
I'm actually surprised at the number of responses that I got. I agree that we will never go back to any of those beliefs or customs, but sometimes I feel like I was born in the wrong century. Sometimes we as a culture (all the time really),we forget where we came from and forget about our past customs and beliefs. That is to our detriment as a society and I don't see that changing ever. Halloween will always be my favorite time of the year, and as I get older,I'm going to try and make our grandkids have some under standing about why I believe what I do,and hopefully pass some of these beliefs or customs, or what the true origin of halloween really is to the next generation.

Most posters here are scifi fans.  They all should have been born in the 22nd century ;-)
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Offline drunkenshoe

Re: halloween (samhain)
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2020, 06:37:23 AM »
When I feel like born in the wrong century, I try to imagine living without electricity, modern medicine and water and sewerage services and then stop feeling that way.  I didn't even say internet and any gadgets mind you.

If you mean being content with less, having more organic relationships, I agree with that. "All you need is less" is the best advice for our age.

But that's a life style as a whole. You can't teach that to children with Halloween customs only.

"I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are good people and bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides." Havelock Vetinari

Offline Baruch

Re: halloween (samhain)
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2020, 11:41:44 AM »
When I feel like born in the wrong century, I try to imagine living without electricity, modern medicine and water and sewerage services and then stop feeling that way.  I didn't even say internet and any gadgets mind you.

If you mean being content with less, having more organic relationships, I agree with that. "All you need is less" is the best advice for our age.

But that's a life style as a whole. You can't teach that to children with Halloween customs only.

No, you beat children daily, like in traditional societies ;-(
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Re: halloween (samhain)
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2020, 05:16:14 PM »
 I agree, when you get to a certain age,you no longer have the desire to accumulate "stuff". Like george carlin said "people collect so much stuff, that they pay for a storage space to put their stuff!" we have downsized many times since we had to sell our house, but we still have no more room for any more "stuff". I hope that I will be able to convey this to our grand kids, but I'm not gonna hold my breath.

Re: halloween (samhain)
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2020, 05:18:33 PM »
 I keep forgetting things, to drunkenshoe, I like your blinking cat.

Offline Baruch

Re: halloween (samhain)
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2020, 07:19:38 PM »
I keep forgetting things, to drunkenshoe, I like your blinking cat.

Siamese are the king of kings, other cats have to serve them, people have to serve lesser cats.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.