Author Topic: Phosphine Detected In The Atmosphere of Venus - An Indicator of Possible Life?  (Read 541 times)

Online Hydra009

I think it all but a forgone conclusion that life exists within our solar system.  Simply look at where life exists on this planet.  It exists everywhere and in almost all environments, including boiling springs, geysers, the lightless bottom of the ocean, within the ice of Antarctica, the driest deserts --everywhere.
Yes, but life on earth is just a slo-mo firework of an initial spark of life*.  It's unknown if it originated once or several times.  Finding definite life elsewhere would settle that question.

* the exact definition of life is somewhat blurry.  There could be precursors to life that aren't technically alive, but meet some of the qualifications for life and may eventually give rise to the full criteria of life.

Offline Baruch

I know, we are legion! We are composed of nothing but microbes.

Cooperating Republican microbes, not anarchist oppositional Democrat microbes.
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Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
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Don't do that.

Offline trdsf

I think it all but a forgone conclusion that life exists within our solar system.  Simply look at where life exists on this planet.  It exists everywhere and in almost all environments, including boiling springs, geysers, the lightless bottom of the ocean, within the ice of Antarctica, the driest deserts --everywhere.
I provisionally agree -- so far everywhere we look that has a reasonable temperature, a solvent, and an energy source has something living in it.

I would be surprised if there weren't simple microbes living in the Martian permafrost, and the phosphine findings on Venus demand further investigation, and the moons Enceladus, Europa, and Titan (with its unexpectedly low amount of acetylene) also have reasonable prospects.  I would hope for something not based on DNA, or at least utilizing different base pairs or a different geometry (A- or Z-DNA, for example, or a different sugar backbone).
"My faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete, it is total, and I am not going to sit here and be an idle spectator to the diminution, the subversion, the destruction of the Constitution." -- Barbara Jordan

Online Mr.Obvious

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I think if there were intelligent life within our own solar system, we would know it by now.

If it is intelligent enough, we probably wouldn't.
"If we have to go down, we go down together!"
- Your mum, requesting 69 last night.

Atheist Mantis does not pray.

Offline Baruch

If it is intelligent enough, we probably wouldn't.

Like the toad hiding from the hawk in Rango ... just don't have a chameleon blow your cover!
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Chemosynthetic life thriving on "toxic" hydrogen sulfide from hydrothermal vents at the bottom of the ocean could be the oldest forms of life on earth. The biomass around these vents is super dense. If the sun was to disappear today, these lifeforms could thrive indefinitely as long as there is oxygen. We just don't know how many "Goldilocks" environments are possible or how many basis forms of animation may exist.

Offline Baruch

Per Dr Kellis, free RNA forms first, later with a lipid capsule to enhance the chemistry (biological test tube/petri dish).  Proteins were invented by RNA, to so something more interesting (more structure) can happen.  DNA was invented by these non-nuclear cells, to achieve superior production and reproduction.  Innovation, created by mutation, culled by evolution in a competitive and hostile environment.  And it seems that early life avoided the difficult environment of the surface world (so under water or underground).  Only later was the surface conquered, and the modern atmosphere created by all the bio-slime.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Offline trdsf

Chemosynthetic life thriving on "toxic" hydrogen sulfide from hydrothermal vents at the bottom of the ocean could be the oldest forms of life on earth. The biomass around these vents is super dense. If the sun was to disappear today, these lifeforms could thrive indefinitely as long as there is oxygen. We just don't know how many "Goldilocks" environments are possible or how many basis forms of animation may exist.
I think my favorite scientific daydream is that somewhere there's a relict population of trilobites lurking around an as-yet undiscovered sea vent... that would be awesome.  :)
"My faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete, it is total, and I am not going to sit here and be an idle spectator to the diminution, the subversion, the destruction of the Constitution." -- Barbara Jordan

That would be cool. So many species gone, hard to believe a few didn't make it. We have a museum quality example. In fact, we like fossils so much we tiled the kitchen with a couple dozen fossils, many from Wyoming's green river formation. Visitors usually assume they are fake for some reason.


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Offline Baruch

I had one of those.  But not a shrimp.  Got garlic butter? ;-)
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

If life is found on Venus, and it is found to be totally different from Earth life, having come about through a completely different evolutionary pathway, it will have enormous implications for the possibility of life elsewhere, in our system and beyond. I'm on the edge of my seat waiting to find out what it is!
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Offline Baruch

If life is found on Venus, and it is found to be totally different from Earth life, having come about through a completely different evolutionary pathway, it will have enormous implications for the possibility of life elsewhere, in our system and beyond. I'm on the edge of my seat waiting to find out what it is!

Venusian life will be acidic yet sexy ;-)
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Offline drunkenshoe

Yes, but life on earth is just a slo-mo firework of an initial spark of life*.  It's unknown if it originated once or several times.  Finding definite life elsewhere would settle that question.

I think, just the continental shift cycle of the planet would be enough to do that. We have passed through 5? Not sure and lazy.

Quote
* the exact definition of life is somewhat blurry.  There could be precursors to life that aren't technically alive, but meet some of the qualifications for life and may eventually give rise to the full criteria of life.

We humans would like to think about life in terms of the bodyplan -so the intelligence- our own phyla produced. I think it is almost impossible for us to imagine an 'intelligent' organism without opposable thumbs. I doubt if we can recognise it.

Think about the 'aliens' pictured in sci-fi movies. None of it is alien, naturally, because it is human imagination. It's either developed from arthropods or tetrapods visually or some sort of mixed image produced from here and there. Xenomorphs... They're all distant relatives. So the idea is that there is a universal formula for a bodyplan based on ours? MYEH. LOL Pfffft. Yeah, Europe Report is a very underrated movie, imo.

The latest one. Look at this. This is not an alien. It has no alien features. It has the general bodyplan produced in Cambrian in the end, doesn't it? It's 'alien' because it is scary, it is scary because it is trying survive, so it attacks and eats humans who put him in a confined space, an environment where only natural resource is human. (Which as far as I understand is the main point of the movie. They're trying to teach to kids that fact. I liked the movie. Good, brief definition of life.)



Lol, the whole thing reminds me what Terry Pratchett wrote about the elves in Lords and Ladies: "If cats looked like frogs we'd realize what nasty, cruel little bastards they are. Style. That's what people remember." I love frogs, they're adorable. But the point stands. I bet cats are nastier than Calvins as sole planet residents and we obviously beat them all and we're not even apex predators. 

Humans are in general very obssessed with extra terrestrial life, esp. intelligent life but in the end, while it is very unlikely they will encounter any in their species life time, I doubt if they would recognise it, if they had.

First things first, humans wouldn't respect a species shorter-smaller than them, doesn't matter how developed or smart they're. Humans wouldn't accept or respect any species, if they didn't think they're equal or superior than them in some way which is very problematic, if you discuss human intelligence and development or what we think is intelligent.

Are humans intelligent enough to recognise intelligent life? Let me rephrase that. Are humans developed enough as species to recognise intelligent, advanced life?
« Last Edit: September 24, 2020, 04:45:34 AM by drunkenshoe »
"I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are good people and bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides." Havelock Vetinari

Offline Baruch

French Revolution people feed themselves to predator animals but apologize first.  I love animals, but not when they are eating people!
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Offline drunkenshoe

That would be cool. So many species gone, hard to believe a few didn't make it. We have a museum quality example. In fact, we like fossils so much we tiled the kitchen with a couple dozen fossils, many from Wyoming's green river formation. Visitors usually assume they are fake for some reason.

Oh nice. With fossils people are almost always like that, tile or not. I have a few but they're in a box. I even named them too,lol. A standard, tiny bent trilobite, an amonite and 3 tiny fishes from a lake in Wyoming. 

Anyway, whenever I show them to someone, the look on their face is pretty funny and their first question is 'how do you know they're real?' LOL I try explain that they're like tons of them, so it is not a big deal and that they can be bought from Science museums or known collectors and that trying to make the replicas would cost more. 

But it is almost always the first reaction.
"I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are good people and bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides." Havelock Vetinari