Author Topic: Star Wars movies  (Read 964 times)

Star Wars movies
« on: August 23, 2020, 01:22:14 PM »
You like them or not?

I only liked 3rd movie because unlike others it had a story to tell
Even with joke videos like this, it still is effective!
Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.

On another note. I do think Disney ruined Star Wars interms of the mythology that made sense. Basically the idea of Jedis is they are good, Sith is corruption. And so its about human nature, the nature of good and evil. Disney treated it like it was politics, which completely missed the point of that mythology to begin with. Thats one thing about Disney take on it that i think was really bad.

I do hope they just calle Star Wars 7-9 spin off series. And get George Lucas back, and let him make the stories he wanted to complete from 7-11. He seemed to know how it was supposed to fit!
« Last Edit: August 23, 2020, 01:27:37 PM by Kibla92 »

Offline Hydra009

Re: Star Wars movies
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2020, 02:16:44 PM »
I'm extremely partial to the original trilogy (New Hope and Empire were masterpieces, Return was a big iffy in places but decent overall).  Aside from the big setpiece battles and Order 66, I didn't care for the prequels.  Except for Rogue One, which was pretty good with a hell of a beach battle and a memorable space battle.  I really wanted to like the sequels, and I think Force Awakens was decent, but Last Jedi and whatever movie came out after that were dumpster fires imho.

I think there's room for more stories in the Star Wars universe - the Clone Wars, Rebels, Mando, etc.  But please, no more Skywalker stories.  At least for a while.  Maybe more low-fantasy stories with the bounty hunters and crime syndicates.  Or Thrawn and adapting more Legends material.

I'm open to them changing whoever's in charge of the IP (don't stick with what doesn't work), but I'd prefer new blood over George Lucas.  Dave Filoni seems to have a very solid grasp on the universe and a nice streak of successful projects.

And yes, the Jedi somewhat deserved their in-universe bad reputation.  They essentially kidnapped and indoctrinated children.  They had practical reasons for doing that (older kids are more difficult to train, unschooled force sensitives were vulnerable to darkside temptation) but it's still an inherently immoral act.  And while they did generally try their hardest to protect innocent people and promote the comparatively more free republican political order over imperial totalitarianism - they certainly also pursued their own self-interest and amassed quite a bit of unelected political power within the republic.

I really wished the sequels had ended with a new order of force sensitives fully independent from Jedi or Sith or any political body.  Alas...
« Last Edit: August 23, 2020, 02:19:07 PM by Hydra009 »

Re: Star Wars movies
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2020, 02:26:28 PM »
The Jedi were the Jesuits of that galaxy.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Re: Star Wars movies
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2020, 05:01:44 PM »
I have tried and tried and tried to like this series.  I saw the first one the summer it came out.  Underwhelmed.  I mean it was a decent movie.  Nothing to get excited about.  My daughter forced me to see the one with Jar Jar Banks and was further underwhelmed.  I must be the only person in the world that doesn't much care for the series.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Online Baruch

Re: Star Wars movies
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2020, 05:41:39 PM »
You had to be the right age at the right time in the right place.  My best friend and I were 21, and we were overwhelmed by the first movie so much, we hid and saw it again immediately without paying for it (we had been in a long line for the first showing).  And I went back and saw it again by myself, after the hype died down.  It was perfect fantasy fare for 15-25 year old Western males!  Also at a time when hero worship and anti-military were in an odd position in the US.  Not long after Superman was revived. Of course any series can only go downhill … see Game of Thrones or Lord of the Rings or The Hobbit.

I like Jar Jar Binks just because I like to piss people off.  Reminded me of my Mr Froggy rubber toy from when I was 6.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2020, 05:43:31 PM by Baruch »
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Re: Star Wars movies
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2020, 06:07:50 PM »
I grew up with "Them", "The Thing from Another World", "Giant Mantis", "The Monolith Monsters", etc., so Star Wars was a huge advance.

https://www.forcesofgeek.com/2013/05/insect-fear-big-bug-movies-of-1950s.html
« Last Edit: August 23, 2020, 06:10:04 PM by Gawdzilla Sama »
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Re: Star Wars movies
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2020, 06:15:46 PM »
I grew up with "Them", "The Thing from Another World", "Giant Mantis", "The Monolith Monsters", etc., so Star Wars was a huge advance.

https://www.forcesofgeek.com/2013/05/insect-fear-big-bug-movies-of-1950s.html
And don't forget the Fly and The Attack of the Alligator People, and War of the Worlds.  I was still not that impressed with Star Wars.  When 2001 came out later, I was much more impressed.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Re: Star Wars movies
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2020, 09:17:59 PM »
And don't forget the Fly and The Attack of the Alligator People, and War of the Worlds.  I was still not that impressed with Star Wars.  When 2001 came out later, I was much more impressed.
Not Big Bug Movies. Classics, but another genre. I put the upper limit for BBMs at "The Giant Gila Monster." (And yes, I did wander off my post but the link was dead bang-ish.)
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Re: Star Wars movies
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2020, 09:18:55 PM »
On another note. I do think Disney ruined Star Wars interms of the mythology that made sense. Basically the idea of Jedis is they are good, Sith is corruption. And so its about human nature, the nature of good and evil. Disney treated it like it was politics, which completely missed the point of that mythology to begin with. Thats one thing about Disney take on it that i think was really bad.

That started before Disney, actually. If all you've seen is the movies, then it's understandable how you'd think the Jedi and Sith are simply good vs evil. But the extended lore (which Disney made non-canon) says otherwise. Of course, the Sith are undeniably evil, but the Jedi aren't blameless either, it turns out. This is actually a very important point in the plot of the video game Knights of the Old Republic 2.

I do hope they just calle Star Wars 7-9 spin off series. And get George Lucas back, and let him make the stories he wanted to complete from 7-11. He seemed to know how it was supposed to fit!

The fans would have hated George Lucas' sequel movies too, I'm sure. But if I can say one good thing about George Lucas, even though fans seemed to hate the prequels, those movies were at least were their own thing. He never self-plagiarized. He just repeated very general story patterns. The Disney Star Wars movies, however, feel rather restrained by comparison. They don't do much that is really new. Hell, they started off the new trilogy with a copy/paste plot of the original movie.
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville

Offline Hydra009

Re: Star Wars movies
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2020, 09:30:55 PM »
That started before Disney, actually. If all you've seen is the movies, then it's understandable how you'd think the Jedi and Sith are simply good vs evil. But the extended lore (which Disney made non-canon) says otherwise. Of course, the Sith are undeniably evil, but the Jedi aren't blameless either, it turns out. This is actually a very important point in the plot of the video game Knights of the Old Republic 2.
From my understanding, the Sith are driven by emotions and it's weighed heavily towards negative emotions like fear and hatred.  And what's more, the Sith are obsessed with personal power - taking it from others and protecting it from challengers.  It makes for a very combative, dog-eat-dog sort of life.  The weak are crushed by the strong and the strong constantly vie for dominance.

The way the Sith are individually driven and collectively organized inevitably leads to ceaseless conflict.

Online Baruch

Re: Star Wars movies
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2020, 10:32:16 PM »
Vorlons vs Shadows .. what if the Shadows are anti-heroes .. Humans vs Minbari
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Offline drunkenshoe

Re: Star Wars movies
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2020, 05:33:28 AM »
I have tried and tried and tried to like this series.  I saw the first one the summer it came out.  Underwhelmed.  I mean it was a decent movie.  Nothing to get excited about.  My daughter forced me to see the one with Jar Jar Banks and was further underwhelmed.  I must be the only person in the world that doesn't much care for the series.

I liked the original trilogy as a kid, but as space and spaceships don't make sci-fiction it has faded away easily. If you like sci-fiction specifically maybe you feel the same? I mean when I was 12, I have 'encountered' with 2001: A Space Odyssey. It has rebooted my small mind and that kind of material didn't work for me since. While it is very different, the only exception is Firefly.

You can tell the story of Star Wars without carrying it to the galactic level too. I think that's why it got turned into a toy box eventually. It was already too thin... Like comic book movies. There isn't much you can do with that material. Hmm... probably why Matrix didn't affect me back then.

Having said all that I'm incapable of disliking Star Wars. I eventually see all of the movies made and then get confused about which one was which, lool. And as I've always loved Lego, that Death Star looks awesome!

 
"I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are good people and bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides." Havelock Vetinari

Online Baruch

Re: Star Wars movies
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2020, 10:38:20 AM »
Firefly was good too.  My daughter really liked it.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Re: Star Wars movies
« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2020, 02:06:28 PM »
From my understanding, the Sith are driven by emotions and it's weighed heavily towards negative emotions like fear and hatred.  And what's more, the Sith are obsessed with personal power - taking it from others and protecting it from challengers.  It makes for a very combative, dog-eat-dog sort of life.  The weak are crushed by the strong and the strong constantly vie for dominance.

The way the Sith are individually driven and collectively organized inevitably leads to ceaseless conflict.

True. But think about what really happened in the prequels. What led to Anakin's transformation into Darth Vader? The Jedi take children from their parents at a young age. Very young. So young that Anakin was almost turned away because he was "too old." They do this because they want the child to forget their attachments to their parents. The Jedi believe that having any attachments at all is bad. You're not allowed to love, not allowed to feel companionship, not allowed to care too much about anything. This is because the Jedi see forming attachments as a slippery slope to the Dark Side.

Of course, they ended up taking Anakin despite his...great age, because they thought he was the "chosen one," and they wanted to use him to their advantage. After years of keeping him away from his mother, he finds her dead. Then he learns that the love of his life, who had to keep secret, was in danger. The Jedi couldn't help him, so who could he turn to?

This is why I like the concept of the Grey Jedi, and why I'm disappointed the Disney movies never even mentioned them. The Grey Jedi balance both. They allow themselves to feel vulnerable, without giving in to negative emotions. They don't neglect their own needs, nor do they use their power to abuse others.
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville

Offline Hydra009

Re: Star Wars movies
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2020, 02:29:53 PM »
True. But think about what really happened in the prequels. What led to Anakin's transformation into Darth Vader? The Jedi take children from their parents at a young age. Very young. So young that Anakin was almost turned away because he was "too old." They do this because they want the child to forget their attachments to their parents.
Which is super duper messed up imo.  Severing familial relationships to breed a better warrior "peacekeeper"... that's child soldier territory.

Quote
The Jedi believe that having any attachments at all is bad. You're not allowed to love, not allowed to feel companionship, not allowed to care too much about anything. This is because the Jedi see forming attachments as a slippery slope to the Dark Side.
And the Jedi were apparently right about that, because his attachments to both his mother and his wife lead him down a very dark path.

But it's crazy to live without attachment (no offense to Siddhartha).  That's a big part of what makes us human.  Without emotion and attachment, people are... *gestures at separatist wardroids* like that.

Quote
This is why I like the concept of the Grey Jedi, and why I'm disappointed the Disney movies never even mentioned them. The Grey Jedi balance both. They allow themselves to feel vulnerable, without giving in to negative emotions. They don't neglect their own needs, nor do they use their power to abuse others.
The gray Jedi are a whole new can of worms and a contentious topic in the star wars fandom.  Some say that they're a logical impossibility because the dark side represents imbalance in the force and the light side represents balance in the force.  And also because the driving forces behind each philosophy make impartiality impossible.



I really like the idea of a third faction between Jedi and Sith (I like characters who are shades of grey, so to speak) but I'm not sure if that would really jell with canon.  Though there do seem to be a few scattered examples of a kind of blurring of the line between dark and light - especially that Bendu entity in Star Wars Rebels.  *shrugs*