Romantic Love

[drunkenshoe]

It is a lot of work. When lifespans were only 40-ish years, you could deal with it. Now you may be together 60 or 70 years.....
I recall "The War of the Roses"

"Because. When I watch you eat. When I see you asleep. When I look at you lately, I just want to smash your face in.%u201D

But in the War of Roses the issue was contempt. If the husband was supportive and helpful with her business, it could have gone the other way or at least get neutral. He looked down on her. And so everything he did annoyed her to no end eventually. There is an amazing scene there as I recall, when she gives him her business contract, he doesn't even look at it and he swats a fly with it. LOL He constantly brushes her off and makes her feel as good for nothing.

That's a traditional thing about marriages and women's place generally, isn't it? Isn't that the whole thing. Nobody -including women- considers taking care of a home or children as a real job or success while it is a thankless, hard job.

E: Lol, I wrote swap instead of swat.

[drunkenshoe]

If you have a high IQ and your romantic partner is lesser in that respect you will have many interesting conundrums. And also if they are not the skeptical type and you are.

 You have figured out the plot to a movie within the first 1/2 hour.. do you just keep your mouth shut? When as a passenger you calculate the next 3 likely traffic events about to occur.... they will lead to disaster and your loving partner at the wheel is oblivious. Do you just inhale and grip the dashboard? When the extended warranty seems like a good idea to them. When they are a financial mess and it is costing you both dearly. From booking flights to starting a BBQ grill they just fuck it up. Do you "help"?, LOL. When you know someone in your social circle is full of shit and your partner does not. Or it can be physical as well. Your lover has let himself go and is tired all the time. You are in tip-top shape. What to do?

There needs to be a deal. And it will not be romantic.

I agree with this. Maybe if he is really good at other things but suck at some others there might be a balance?

I think the most difficult sort of relationship would be between believers and nonbelievers. Or rather between religious and nonbeliever. I don't have that experience but people tell different stuff.     

[drunkenshoe]

Being permanently on guard is not doable. This is exactly what made me a grumpy, snappy person, sometimes an ass. I'm an ambivert and between extreme as the personality traits go. It's the worst combination you can have as a human being, trust me. Then you come as a nihilistic, pessimistic, misanthropic ass to everyone around you, to potential friend or love.

Rarely, someone gets the situation and if you are lucky they're a someone you can fall for. Then there comes another problem because then there is no guard, because they know how soft and emotional you actually are. So that person should have a much better balanced personality in my case. I got that lucky one time. It was a long relationship.

When I said 'I'm a sucker for a strong man' before in the Last Post thread this was actually what I meant, but yeah it is sexist. I was young and madly in love, and had no idea it took strength at the other side and that I'm a certain type of difficult person in a different way. That has run its course for different reasons and ended. But then years later another man left me because "You don't get me into your life" which I didn't get a thing then. I got it later. He was right from his point of view. He also wanted to get marry and have children and I think that played a big role too.

Myeh...I got used to being single so long, it looks like another universe to me now.

[Baruch]

Is there a kind of love that's not romantic?
Not mentioning about the affection of a mother to her baby.
Love is by nature consists of romanticism.

Go to the Greek ... eros, philos, agape.  Philos is the best, but agape is required.  Eros is encouragement to do what is right, not what is wrong.  I would rather have a good friend than a SO anytime.  Agape is the common good, bigger than me.  Philos is friendship.  Even Jesus mentions it.

Romanticism is hormones and emotions that control you, you don't control them.  This is from Dionysius, not Apollo.  Goes good with wine.

[Baruch]

But in the War of Roses the issue was contempt. If the husband was supportive and helpful with her business, it could have gone the other way or at least get neutral. He looked down on her. And so everything he did annoyed her to no end eventually. There is an amazing scene there as I recall, when she gives him her business contract, he doesn't even look at it and he swaps a fly with it. LOL He constantly brushes her off and makes her feel as good for nothing.

That's a traditional thing about marriages and women's place generally, isn't it? Isn't that the whole thing. Nobody -including women- considers taking care of a home or children as a real job or success while it is a thankless, hard job.

Women are a bit self conscious.  They assume that men despise them (projection).  Most of the time men don't think like .. "what does person X think of me"?  We are pretty unselfconscious. In fact women despise themselves and each other, because the perfection they think is required.  Are you are projecting your own hatred of traditional roles?  Fact is, women do a lot, even a homemaker with no children to care for (and that is under modern conditions).  Unfortunately prestige (social cache) comes with bringing home money.  This and love of power over others has destroyed marriage and family worldwide.  That, more than gender specific patriarchy, is destructive.  Alpha women are just as much a problem.

My gift to my daughter is to accept her each day as she is that day, and put no expectations on her.  To substantially and emotionally support her.  Of course some men actually do despise women.  My Ex thought I did, but it was about her, not me.  Men who despise women are objectifiers ... only self hurting women chase bad boys like that.

[Baruch]

I agree with this. Maybe if he is really good at other things but suck at some others there might be a balance?

I think the most difficult sort of relationship would be between believers and nonbelievers. Or rather between religious and nonbeliever. I don't have that experience but people tell different stuff.   

I became a believer because of my young wife, she manifested the good.  So it can work out if you are not too set in your ways.  Today I am more faithful than her, she is more bitter than me.  We all suffer disappointments, but she has taken it badly.  Like that "doctor without borders" from Scotland that I met on-line, who had rejected G-d because G-d let his 5 year old daughter die.

I think there is as much variance between non-believers, as there is between believers.  Their politics can vary also.  For a long time, I let my Ex lead me politically (though we were both liberal when we met).  There has to be give and take to avoid inevitable conflicts.  Yes, you have to let your guard down, to let some people in.  I think drunkenshoe is a remarkable person first, a woman second.  But we would probably clash ;-))

[drunkenshoe]

Women are a bit self conscious.  They assume that men despise them (projection).  Most of the time men don't think like .. "what does person X think of me"?  We are pretty unselfconscious. In fact women despise themselves and each other, because the perfection they think is required.  Are you are projecting your own hatred of traditional roles?  Fact is, women do a lot, even a homemaker with no children to care for (and that is under modern conditions).  Unfortunately prestige (social cache) comes with bringing home money.  This and love of power over others has destroyed marriage and family worldwide.  That, more than gender specific patriarchy, is destructive.  Alpha women are just as much a problem.

My gift to my daughter is to accept her each day as she is that day, and put no expectations on her.  To substantially and emotionally support her.  Of course some men actually do despise women.  My Ex thought I did, but it was about her, not me.  Men who despise women are objectifiers ... only self hurting women chase bad boys like that.

I don't despise men. They don't despise me. I love men and interestingly enough for some, they love me too. Nobody in my family imposed any traditional female role or any belief on to me. Probably, I'd be a happier person if they had. They're not a modern family, they've just never given a damn what people think and let me and my sister be. So I don't despise myself either. Compared to the standard, being me is very good. Lonely? Yes. I'm very self-conscious, alienating, and alienated but this probably has been going on since I was 3, so while I don't know how to be in an another way, I don't see anything wrong with it. I have certain personality traits that are exhausting. I don't like them. Do you like yours?

I don't care about traditional roles from a personal point of view because I haven't suffered them honestly. I just try to analyse them and their consequences when it comes up through observation and my life experiences. They are mostly not good. In this land, I'm generally concerned with human rights.

I was consciously sheltered from religion from a very young age by my parents and I've become what I am by myself as I go. I live in a secular community. I have known most people around me for more than 20 years. They're used to me. But yes I'm the only nonmarried, childless, nonbeliever female in my community as far as I know. Yet there are many women like me in the Middle East and around the world. It's not even interesting.

[Baruch]

Different people.  Different experiences.  You are the only you, you could be.