Author Topic: There is an organized order, so there must be an organizer?  (Read 1045 times)

Offline Baruch

Re: There is an organized order, so there must be an organizer?
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2020, 10:39:02 PM »
The human being is all the evidence that I need.
 
Is it: (a) I think, therefore a god
-or-
is it: (b) I think, therefore My God ?

Getting from all that wishy washy, feel good, spiritual feeling stuff to a specific deity and a dogmatic system seems like non evidential irrationality to me. I am of course agnostic on the subject but they don't have agnostic forums, LOL


I am a demi-god.  But not special, everyone is a demi-god.  Augustus Caesar was (in how they meant it then) a demi-god, and he didn't even have a cell phone.  Letting people define their own terms is surrender without a fight.

Yes, we all know that Trump is a Russian agent ... because empirical evidence?  Really?  I know that Hillary murdered all those Arkancide victims up close and personal ... because I saw her do it?

One can restrict ones' standard of evidence so tight, even arithmetic is suspicious.  Just ask the geniuses as BLM.  Or Kurt Godel.  A finite system of arithmetic, if assumed complete, is necessarily inconsistent.  A finite system of arithmetic, if assumed consistent, is necessarily incomplete.

All the world is s stage ...

"I am alone in the Theater of Dionysus in Athens, I am one of many there -> Sometimes I am the protagonist, or the antagonist, or in the chorus or in the audience.  Sometimes a comedy is in progress, but more often a tragedy.  Those are the dimensions of my witnessing.  What I was, I have not yet become ... what I will be, I already have been, and where those cross over, here am I.  My witnessing is a becoming, is interwoven with the play's progress.  I have arrived, but I have never left.  What I may be, lies beyond speech, beyond revealing.  My purpose is to embody that mystery, which is to live a life ... Dionysius am I.  Let's drink to that!"



The mask is your "persona".  This is why masks are important for Covid, we are enacting our own tragedy in our daily lives.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2020, 11:10:33 PM by Baruch »
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Offline Baruch

Re: There is an organized order, so there must be an organizer?
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2020, 10:41:52 PM »
On the Planck scale there is only the quantum foam, with no order in evidence. On the cosmic scale, again there is no order in evidence. Only on the scales between those can what we call order be seen - our brains perceive it, but our perceptions are very limited.

I hear that bathing in quantum foam cures Covid ;-)

Yes, our senses are very limited.  But except as a baby, you don't sense directly, you sense thru a built-in gestalt and a learned perception.  Once you are older, you don't think that your mother really disappeared when she goes around a corner, out of your sight.  What is supposedly objectively real, that we approximately get in science, is called "qualia".  And philosophers aren't even sure that exists.  Scientific method avoids utter subjectivity (of the psychotic), but its grasp of the objective is approximate (but only in the hands of scientists not named Lysenko or Fauci).
« Last Edit: August 07, 2020, 10:45:05 PM by Baruch »
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Offline Baruch

Re: There is an organized order, so there must be an organizer?
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2020, 10:43:12 PM »
And what little order is get is just a function of natural forces operating in tandem with each other and occassionally pumping out something that we perceive as orderly rather than purposeful, deliberate craftsmanship.

For example, Saturn has this really striking hexagonal cloud pattern at its north pole.  Really wonderful.  But it's not like it gives me pause and makes me think that some divine being came down and made it happen.  Take a liquid, spin it around at different speeds in the middle and at the top and bottom, this is what you get.  It's not magic.

What are natural forces?  Gravity, to Einstein, only is apparent, because we don't use a smarter (freely falling) reference frame.  One should stop at Newtonian physics, right?  In relative motion, if you are fast enough, the effect precedes the cause.

A bunch of semi-divine-beings sent a probe with a camera to Saturn.  Jehovah wasn't necessary.  I once spent three days (only three) working on the Hubble Space Telescope.  Odysseus never did that!
« Last Edit: August 07, 2020, 11:15:03 PM by Baruch »
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Offline drunkenshoe

Re: There is an organized order, so there must be an organizer?
« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2020, 02:23:50 AM »
This is the only organiser. That's why they were given away free at work places -even big stores- in large quantities at ocassions, new year's eve, christmas...before smart gadgets were introduced to human life. While this archaic type was the one a few people could successfuly use, other ones proved to use people effectively in mass scale. (Hint: This is an anology.) 

 

« Last Edit: August 08, 2020, 02:46:14 AM by drunkenshoe »
"I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are good people and bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides." Havelock Vetinari

Offline Baruch

Re: There is an organized order, so there must be an organizer?
« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2020, 09:01:36 AM »
You are such a 1980s woman ;-)  Still have a cell phone the size of a brick? ;-)

BTW ... you proved my point.  You all do, because you aren't a bad interaction fake human like Tay,  uploaded online, though some nihilists want to be.

“Do not accept anything as the truth if it lacks love.  And do not accept anything as love is it lacks the truth.  One without the other is a destructive lie.

My God, fill my soul with holy joy, courage and strength to serve You.  Kindle your love in me and then walk with me along the next stretch of road before me. 

I do not see very far ahead, but when I have arrived where the horizon closes down, a new prospect will open before me, and I shall meet it with peace.”

Jewish-Catholic Saint Edith Stein
« Last Edit: August 09, 2020, 01:23:16 PM by Baruch »
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Re: There is an organized order, so there must be an organizer?
« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2020, 11:19:07 AM »
This is the only organiser. That's why they were given away free at work places -even big stores- in large quantities at ocassions, new year's eve, christmas...before smart gadgets were introduced to human life. While this archaic type was the one a few people could successfuly use, other ones proved to use people effectively in mass scale. (Hint: This is an anology.) 



yeap, it was the only organiser back in your days :D

an old but gold organiser...

however in the context i want to open the discussion, it is no alaka.

Offline Baruch

Re: There is an organized order, so there must be an organizer?
« Reply #21 on: August 10, 2020, 01:35:15 PM »
Such organizers were popular in the 80-90s and spontaneously assembled themselves thru quantum mechanics woo.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Re: There is an organized order, so there must be an organizer?
« Reply #22 on: August 10, 2020, 01:47:52 PM »
Such organizers were popular in the 80-90s and spontaneously assembled themselves thru quantum mechanics woo.

In no time, it assembles...

do not worry about it... ı h've tried this type of old organiser... no functionality...

now, i click it, and i'm done with it...

thanks techonology...

Re: There is an organized order, so there must be an organizer?
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2020, 02:51:18 PM »
Holy Ontological argument Batman. Don't you just love when bedroom logisticians set out to show their specific brand of god exists. They get a script from some website and call in to Matt Dillihunty or Seth Andrews to show them the way it is and end up getting all tongue twisted. DNA somehow is really C code and just because material brains can think and communicate in the abstract we have a 3-day rotting Jesus walked around smelling like roses. Then Bang....the next thing you know we have an infinite number of universes and anything that "is possible" must exist, therefore Satan is leading us to homosexuality. I really respect plain old fashioned faith more than all this "intellectual" apologetic bullcrap.
 

Offline Baruch

Re: There is an organized order, so there must be an organizer?
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2020, 02:58:33 PM »
It doesn't matter what brand of god/goddess you follow.  That would be prejudicial, and we know how SJWs feel about that!

I don't need SJWs to tell me what to have for supper.  What arguments can they offer regarding my routine subjective decisions?

Ontological arguments don't work on people who only use logic for casuistry.

Justice arguments are different ... "You never expect the Spanish Inquisition!".
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Re: There is an organized order, so there must be an organizer?
« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2020, 06:04:56 PM »
I fuck all, u never know!...

Offline Hydra009

Re: There is an organized order, so there must be an organizer?
« Reply #26 on: August 10, 2020, 11:03:25 PM »
Holy Ontological argument Batman. Don't you just love when bedroom logisticians set out to show their specific brand of god exists. They get a script from some website and call in to Matt Dillihunty or Seth Andrews to show them the way it is and end up getting all tongue twisted. DNA somehow is really C code and just because material brains can think and communicate in the abstract we have a 3-day rotting Jesus walked around smelling like roses. Then Bang....the next thing you know we have an infinite number of universes and anything that "is possible" must exist, therefore Satan is leading us to homosexuality. I really respect plain old fashioned faith more than all this "intellectual" apologetic bullcrap.
 
Yeah, that bugs me, too.  The dishonesty of it all.

But I kinda see why they do this.  They're met with skeptics who demand proof (which they must know they can't provide) or at least a logical reason to believe (which seems doable to them).  And so they semi-carefully craft these logical hairballs and show them to us with pride, hoping to win our approval and immediate conversion.  And for some unknown reason, they don't quite get the reaction they expected.  Walking by faith tends to lead one into a ditch.  But it's a decent attempt: they at least know what we want and put forth an effort to provide it.  They may even genuinely value reason and logic themselves.

The people who really drive me nuts are the presuppositionists - who simply assume that their faith is true and expect that to fly.  Or the people who think that their subjective experience is enough to sell me.  If I told people that I walked into the woods and befriended a demon sultan, people would have questions and rightfully so.  My say-so means nothing, just as theirs does.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2020, 10:12:26 PM by Hydra009 »

Offline Baruch

Re: There is an organized order, so there must be an organizer?
« Reply #27 on: August 11, 2020, 12:03:29 AM »
I fuck all, u never know!...

Read some affirmations.  That is more important than if G-d has a beard ;-)
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Offline Baruch

Re: There is an organized order, so there must be an organizer?
« Reply #28 on: August 11, 2020, 12:06:02 AM »
Yeah, that bugs me, too.  The dishonesty of it all.

But I kinda see why they do this.  They're met with skeptics who demand proof (which they must know they can't provide) or at least a logical reason to believe (which seems doable to them).  And so they semi-carefully craft these logical hairballs and show them to us with pride, hoping to win our approval and immediate conversion.  And for some unknown reason, they don't quite get the reaction they expected.  Walking by faith tends to lead one into a ditch.  But it's a decent attempt: they at least know what we want and put forth an effort to provide it.  They may even genuinely value reason and logic themselves.

The people who really drive me nuts are the presuppositionists - who simply assume that they faith is true and expect that to fly.  Or the people who think that their subjective experience is enough to sell me.  If I told people that I walked into the woods and befriended a demon sultan, people would have questions and rightfully so.  My say-so means nothing, just as theirs does.

One starts with a hypothesis, based on "common notions" so says Euclid.  Otherwise it isn't logic, it is rhetoric.  My "common notion" is that people's thinking, feeling and behavior are the result of human psychology.  I don't need to trace that back to the Planck Length of space-time.  Ontological arguments for anything, have never impressed me.  I am from the "show me" state, or should be.  People can get away with denying theology or denying philosophy ... but denying psychology is "crazy".
« Last Edit: August 12, 2020, 09:14:07 PM by Baruch »
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Re: There is an organized order, so there must be an organizer?
« Reply #29 on: August 13, 2020, 08:50:53 PM »
Firstly, we have a question?

Is the universe in an organized order, or is it a chaos?

Cosmos in its etymological root means order, in contrast to any order or organization...

So, you agree with that the universe is going where it is going in an organized order??????????????

or it is a chaos?????şdlfjgldfgd?_?????????*

Asking the thread's headline's question? what do you think?

It is very popular rhetoric in Turkland's some circles...

First of all, as others have already stated, at smallest level of the universe, it does not look like there is order.

Also, human brains have evolved to find patterns, even where there aren't any. We are basically, hyper active pattern seeking machines For survival, it is better to for us to have more false positives, than false negatives.;

So, the alleged order you are pointing to, may just be our brains trying to overlay order onto something that may not actually be ordered.

And finally, it seems to me, that there is a fallacy of composition in this argument. In other words, just because something is true of part of something, doesn't mean it is true of the whole.
And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence - Russell