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Trump Versus Biden

Started by Jason Harvestdancer, July 03, 2020, 09:46:46 PM

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Blackleaf

Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on October 31, 2020, 03:47:33 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vk_QnKtBH8w

I miss the times when Trump was universally considered a clown. Now it's only everyone except Conservatives and Conservatives LARPing as Moderates who agree he's a clown.

"I'm totally left of center, you guys! Just because I consistently take the position against policies that benefit racial and sexual minorities, think that societies turning away from Conservative Christian "values" is hurting the family unit, and are more concerned about the threat of blue-haired college students than literal Nazis doesn't mean I'm a Conservative!"
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville--

SGOS


And all of those cases are cherry picked to support today's accuracy of the new polling, which means more pollster bias.

Quote from: Hydra009 on October 31, 2020, 03:21:29 PM
I dunno what you're saying here.  Are you saying that the pollsters are picking and choosing which polls to publish and only publish polls favoring Biden?
No not at all.  I'm thinking pollsters would be motivated (possibly unconsciously) to create the impression that they have their bases covered this year by pointing out changes they have made in methodology, and why their changes are correct.  But that seems like Monday morning quarterbacking to make those assumptions.  I'm not attacking pollsters.  I think polling is less than an exact science, and much is left to bias.  Actually, I'm not that hot on my own argument, because it's more like I'm thinking out loud, and I'm not sure how sound that is.  I'm not at all saying that pollsters are fudging to give Biden a better lead.  I give them way more credit than that. 

Baruch

If you are a married adult (even to same gender), if you work full time equivalent between the two of you, if you are raising children or otherwise supporting them as a Big Brother etc ... then I believe you have family values.  Some are too young or presently out of luck.  If you are working against those ordinary common things, then you are part of the problem not part of the solution.  I see all politicians in the latter category.  So no matter who wins next month, the American people will lose again, as they do every two years.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Hydra009

Quote from: SGOS on October 31, 2020, 05:08:56 PMI'm thinking pollsters would be motivated (possibly unconsciously) to create the impression that they have their bases covered this year by pointing out changes they have made in methodology, and why their changes are correct.
I mean, I'm sure they've gotten questions about why polls were so off in 2016 and what they're doing differently this time around.  If I were a pollster, I'd draw a lot of attention to the methodology changes myself, possibly boring the question-asker into a statistics-induced coma.

Hydra009

Speaking of polls, there's bit of disagreement over them at the moment

QuoteThe Trafalgar Group, which was the only nonpartisan outlet in 2016 to find Trump leading in Michigan and Pennsylvania on Election Day, shows Trump with small leads in both states, which would be keys to another Trump win in the Electoral College. Nearly every other pollster shows Biden with a comfortable lead.

Trafalgar’s Robert Cahaly says there is a hidden Trump vote that is not being accounted for in polls that show Biden on a glide path to the White House.

“There are more [shy Trump voters] than last time and it’s not even a contest,” Cahaly said, adding that it’s “quite possible” that the polling industry is headed for a catastrophic miss in 2020.

QuoteFiveThirtyEight’s Nate Silver and Cook Political Report editor Dave Wasserman are among those deeply skeptical of Cahaly’s polling.

Both have dug into the crosstabs of Trafalgar polls and pointed to questionable breakdowns as evidence Trafalgar doesn’t know what it’s doing. For instance, the crosstabs in a Michigan poll, which are no longer online, appeared to show Trump leading Biden by 8 points among young voters, a Democratic stronghold.
Maybe they're using this as part of their dataset?

Who's right?  I dunno.  I guess we'll find out.

Unbeliever

Both the media and the GOP love really close elections - the media gets more money if it looks like a horse race, and the GOP because close elections are easier to steal. Voter suppression works better that way.
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Baruch

Quote from: Unbeliever on October 31, 2020, 07:04:03 PM
Both the media and the GOP love really close elections - the media gets more money if it looks like a horse race, and the GOP because close elections are easier to steal. Voter suppression works better that way.

Chaos creates investment opportunities.  So does burning down cities.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Hydra009

Saying the quiet part out loud:  Minnesota GOP worries that late ballots may "dilute" their vote

QuoteMinnesota was one of those states, with a consent decree in state court that changed the rules so ballots postmarked on or before Nov. 3 could be accepted for up to seven days after the election.

Republican state Rep. Eric Lucero and GOP activist James Carson, who both would participate in the Electoral College if President Donald Trump carries Minnesota, opposed the state agreement and took the case to federal court. Their lawsuit, backed by the conservative-leaning Honest Elections Project, argued that an extension would create chaos and dilute the value of their votes by counting “unlawful” ballots after Election Day.
They supposedly have the silent majority on their side, so I don't see what they're worried about.  If anything, they'd insist that every ballot be counted because they love America (and by extension, America's democratic tradition) and know they have the support of the common man, who will outnumber any minority liberal elites.

Baruch

Quote from: Hydra009 on November 01, 2020, 11:55:08 AM
Saying the quiet part out loud:  Minnesota GOP worries that late ballots may "dilute" their vote
They supposedly have the silent majority on their side, so I don't see what they're worried about.  If anything, they'd insist that every ballot be counted because they love America (and by extension, America's democratic tradition) and know they have the support of the common man, who will outnumber any minority liberal elites.

Hubert Humphrey won in 1968, George McGovern won in 1972 ... bwahaha  ... there is no silent majority.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

bob nelson

 You're right, I did join this thread willingly, and found out that what I had heard about most atheists is true. They are liberal and usually vote for the left and that I should probably keep my political leanings to my self. Some of you are taking politics and yourselves way too seriously. It's not healthy to get that wound up over something that you think you can influence one way or the other. All politicians are corrupt. All have very low moral standards, that's why they are so many career politicans in office, they'll do ANYTHING to stay in power. That's the myth about D.C. They don't care about us, they care about getting rich. When the clintons left the white house, hilliary whined about them being broke. They didn't know where they were going to end up. Now they're worth 100+ million dollars. All of that money was earned legally right? Sure, it's all about the people. All of your opinions and my own mean less than nothing to them, we're just a means to an end.I take no insults personally and infer non on any one else. We will continue to live our lives after this is over, and hopefully the future will be better than it is now. Right now, it's all just one giant cluster-fuck.

Gawdzilla Sama

The problem is the right believes in government by the people. But only the right people.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Hydra009

#611
Quote from: bob nelson on November 01, 2020, 04:04:30 PMYou're right, I did join this thread willingly, and found out that what I had heard about most atheists is true. They are liberal and usually vote for the left and that I should probably keep my political leanings to my self.
That was a pretty slow revelation after several posts of MAGA chest-beating.  At the very least, you could've looked around before jumping in and foolishly assuming everyone was pro-Trump.

And you know, there's only like a handful of regular posters here, so probably too small a sample size for all atheists.  You might wanna try somewhere else, though the right-wing boards tend to lend themselves to right-wing Christianity, and I dunno if they'd think kindly of your kind.  Something about leopards and faces.

That said, there is a loose correlation between atheism and leaning left politically, at least in the West.  There are lots of interesting theories as to why this is the case.  Personally, I think the fact that atheists typically aren't pro-theocracy is probably a pretty big factor.

QuoteSome of you are taking politics and yourselves way too seriously.
You try (very hard, I might add) to portray talking about politics practically on the eve of a major election as a bad thing.  Why?  Would you feel the same if it was people expressing right-wing viewpoints?

QuoteIt's not healthy to get that wound up over something that you think you can influence one way or the other.
Have you ever met a religious person?  Or a scientist?  Or just a regular person?  People get worried about stuff they can't change all the time.  But in this case, there is a clearcut course of action and it's called the ballot box.  After that, it's wait-and-see time.  And naturally, people are going to talk during this period.  Purely optional, of course.  You can talk or not talk, just don't stand in the doorway, m'kay?

QuoteAll politicians are corrupt.
This seems to be something of a right-wing mantra (or is it a thought-terminating cliche?).  I know you guys need to believe that because of your own associations (the grass can't possibly be greener elsewhere) but the obvious fact is that there are a range people in politics - good people, decent people, okay people, bad people, deplorables, etc.

QuoteAll have very low moral standards, that's why they are so many career politicans in office, they'll do ANYTHING to stay in power.
Well, we just ran the experiment and tried a reality tv star instead.  It didn't work out so well.

And although career politicians (like career scientists and career educators) typically aren't viewed very favorably by the right (apparently, McConnell is the exception for some reason), there's something to be said for experience and expertise.

QuoteWe will continue to live our lives after this is over, and hopefully the future will be better than it is now.
It's looking that way, despite some strenuous efforts otherwise.  But we'll see.

aitm

Rather a telling statement to say all politicians have low morals when you tout conservative, the most “pretend religious” ever, having the lowest morals. But...that is nothing new to us. Christians have always been fond of following scripture that benefits them and ignoring the ones that are inconvenient or not profitable.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Baruch

#613
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on November 01, 2020, 05:28:50 PM
The problem is the right believes in government by the people. But only the right people.

The Left believes in government by Lenin, Stalin, Trotsky, Mao, Castro, Tito, Ho Chi Minh, Pol Pot etc.  Because communism is utopia, and any thing done to further utopia should be done ... have to break a few 10s of millions of eggs for one big happy omelet, right?

The government has always been by the Elite.  The question is, which elite?  Democracy has always been a sham, thanks to brain washed deplorables.  It is two wolves discussing with one sheep, what to have for dinner.  In an autarchy the wolves don't vote, in a democracy the wolves vote.  The result is the same.

If there had never been any Christians, the atheists would still complain about them ;-)  Atheists of course reject all gods, except the tiny god that is their own ego ;-)) ... that is why there is no room for other gods ;-)))
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cassia

Once I reached upper management in corporate America and my portfolio was fluctuating 5 figures on an average day, I was allowed to attend events with people worth hundreds of millions and they would shoot the shit. They love the stereotypical Trump voters. They had a laugh about how they are "as dumb as rocks", but they love them.

The only vote that matters is the one vote per share that elects that board who will do all the real what, where, who and when deciding that really effects our lives (including who in the government needs to be elected for the very purpose of throttling itself.) And of course your health is just another business.