Trump Versus Biden

[Baruch]

Walter Mondale’s 1984 concession to Ronald Reagan: “The choice was made peacefully. And although I would have rather won tonight, we rejoice in our democracy. We rejoice in the freedom of a wonderful people. And we accept their verdict.”

That happened in a parallel universe, not this one.  Didn't happen in 1860.  Dems worst losers of all time.  They liked 1865 even less.  Dems both N and S sucked and still do.

[Baruch]

So in one week, about half the country will be bitterly disappointed that "evil" won.  Yes, both sides have a significant portion that sees the other side as actually evil.  There will be a big public meltdown by that side.  And that side will blame 3rd party voters like me for their loss.

That will happen no matter which side wins.

The verdict of history is always right.  Both views are correct, "Americans are evil" - King George III

No, they won't blame you, they will blame Putin not Xi.

[GSOgymrat]

So in one week, about half the country will be bitterly disappointed that "evil" won.  Yes, both sides have a significant portion that sees the other side as actually evil.  There will be a big public meltdown by that side.  And that side will blame 3rd party voters like me for their loss.

That will happen no matter which side wins.

I'm hoping there won't be violence. No matter who wins, it would be the perfect time for Russia, China, or another country hostile to the US to detonate a bomb or some other terrorist attack on US soil and not claim responsibility for it. One of Trump's hotels would be the perfect target. It would be complete chaos.

[Baruch]

I hope the Chinese invade ;-)

[Unbeliever]

So in one week, about half the country will be bitterly disappointed that "evil" won.  Yes, both sides have a significant portion that sees the other side as actually evil.  There will be a big public meltdown by that side.  And that side will blame 3rd party voters like me for their loss.

That will happen no matter which side wins.

Maybe America will elect Kanye West...

[Blackleaf]

Wow,great grammar there. For those who judge someone's arguments by the quality of an avatar that they don't use, sarcasm or not, that's sad. I'm too old to get angry or lose any sleep over what other people say in this thread. Get rid of your  anger in some other way, because I think if you keep it  up like this after the election is over, you might end-up alone and bitter. I will continue to listen to black-metal and spend time with our grandkids. That makes me smile, not arguing politics on an atheist web-site. Get off my lawn!

Umm... Did you forget how the Quote button works, buddy? No idea what grammar you're taking issue with. Also, you're committing another ad hominem fallacy. If you're not going to engage, just don't post.

[SGOS]

So in one week, about half the country will be bitterly disappointed that "evil" won.  Yes, both sides have a significant portion that sees the other side as actually evil.  There will be a big public meltdown by that side.  And that side will blame 3rd party voters like me for their loss.

That will happen no matter which side wins.

That's right.  Half the country will be sad no matter who wins. But what helps me is looking at the other half of the half empty glass.  Half the country will be dancing joyfully, and even though that half works against my best interests, they are Americans and my countrymen even if we disagree.  It's good to know that others are rejoicing even if I don't participate in the gladness (or the sorrow).  But unfortunately, there is something bigger at stake than winning or losing.

As for voting 3rd party, that is an option that I will defend.  I voted against Trump this year, which is not a lot different from voting 3rd party, because whoever wins produces little or nothing that is positive.  But one thing I will say for most Democratic candidates is they make very good concession speeches.  Remember Al Gore?  His concession speech was the most heart felt speech he made that year.  I was impressed that night.
 
But I cannot bring myself to blame anyone who votes third party.  That blame I bestow on the main parties that offer up uninspiring candidates.  It helps to realize that of late, the third parties have offered total screwballs, but voting third party hurts nothing because we usually end up with duds when the votes are counted.  But Trump makes this year a special case.  And offering the "Any Functioning Adult" option is about the best Democrats can do or care to do.  It's not much of a strategy, however.

[SGOS]

I recently read that more than half of eligible voters in the USA don't vote.  The NYT interviewed a handful.  I don't know if interviewees were representative or not.  They were just felt disenfranchised by a system that did not represent their needs.  Apparently, being told by politicians that they would benefit if they voted for whoever was not convincing enough.  Non voters tended towards being uneducated and poor.  I don't think that necessarily disqualifies them from consideration, however.  But that's a lot of hopeless people.

[SGOS]

Maybe America will elect Kanye West...

I never heard of Kanye West and had to google.  I got lots of hits about him announcing his candidacy, but little else about the man, until I finally surfed my way down to this interview.  God forbid you watch the whole video.  It's three hours long, but you can get to know him in about the first three to five minutes.  Who knows.  If Trump can be president, then....  And this seems to be pretty much his argument for running.  But I only watched about 5 minutes or less.  A very short scroll down the page brings you to the video.

https://www.nme.com/news/music/watch-kanye-wests-mammoth-three-hour-interview-on-the-joe-rogan-experience-2797090

Anyone in the forum up for facing off against Kanye West in 2024?  I can't run because I'm still mastering the Rubik's Cube, but I could probably have time for a cabinet position.  As my Ex used to say, if she was in politics, she would want to be the one that was in charge of whales and elephants.  I applauded her for that.

[Draconic Aiur]

I never heard of Kanye West and had to google.

He's this basically:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GzOoyOOfqM

[drunkenshoe]

I never heard of Kanye West and had to google.

I envy you.

[Cassia]

I envy you.

+1

[GSOgymrat]

I recently read that more than half of eligible voters in the USA don't vote.  The NYT interviewed a handful.  I don't know if interviewees were representative or not.  They were just felt disenfranchised by a system that did not represent their needs.  Apparently, being told by politicians that they would benefit if they voted for whoever was not convincing enough.  Non voters tended towards being uneducated and poor.  I don't think that necessarily disqualifies them from consideration, however.  But that's a lot of hopeless people.

According to the US Census Bureau, these are reasons given by eligible voters why they did not vote in the presidential election in 2016:

Did not like candidates or campaign issues (4.7 million)
Not interested (2.9 million)
Too busy, conflicting schedule (2.7 million)
Illness or disability (2.2 million)
Other reason (2.1 million)
Out of town (1.5 million)
Registration problems (0.8 million)
Forgot to vote (0.6 million)
Don’t know or refused (0.5 million)
Transportation problems (0.5 million)
Inconvenient polling place (0.4 million)
Bad weather conditions (0.01 million)

[SGOS]

I recently read a poll that gives Biden an 8 percentage point lead over Trump, and 5% to 8% Biden leads seem to be about standard for the last month.  I can't remember Hillary's lead, but I remember what I considered a similar small percentage for her.  5% to 8% (or even less) should not and did not guarantee a slam dunk on election day, which should not have been the huge surprise that it was.

I also read a poll that attached the standard of error of +/- 8 to Biden's 8 point lead which means his lead could also be zero.  Granted it could also be +16, but whatever.  It's like Biden has an 8% lead with a standard error of +/- 8, but there is also a standard error of +/- 22 that the standard error of+/- 8 is incorrect.

I've read that pollsters have said that they have taken note of their errors in 2016, and corrected for that, but honestly I have read nothing where a pollster explains what they have done to correct what they did wrong. And to make it more complicated, the chances that they have accurately identified their errors correctly has a standard error of +/- 87.  Do these guys know what they are doing?  OK, they are probably better than us asking our friends what they think.  What we may need are retired bookies who made their living coming up with odds on horses.  Oh wait.  They might be the same people that do presidential polls already.

[SGOS]

According to the US Census Bureau, these are reasons given by eligible voters why they did not vote in the presidential election in 2016:

Did not like candidates or campaign issues (4.7 million)
Not interested (2.9 million)
Too busy, conflicting schedule (2.7 million)
Illness or disability (2.2 million)
Other reason (2.1 million)
Out of town (1.5 million)
Registration problems (0.8 million)
Forgot to vote (0.6 million)
Don’t know or refused (0.5 million)
Transportation problems (0.5 million)
Inconvenient polling place (0.4 million)
Bad weather conditions (0.01 million)

Actually, those numbers seem to match up with the reasons given in the article I read.  The article may have made mention of the census.  I can't remember. Keep in mind that there were only 3 or 4 people that the article profiled in the NYT.  I sort of assume those were representative of the whole, but I don't know that.  The two largest groups on the census reasons seem to reflect the disenfranchisement I picked up from the article.  The the last three were the smallest groups, and the ones that Republicans and Democrats are arguing about.  I don't want to downplay their importance because of the groups' relative sizes.  Voting should be as easy as possible for everyone, including those that happen to be "out of town."  But disenfranchisement doesn't lend itself to debate, because you can't pin the blame on the other guy in a political debate over why people don't like either one of you.  And that seems to be the biggest problem.