George Floyd and racial justice

Started by GSOgymrat, May 30, 2020, 09:11:58 AM

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Baruch

Quote from: Shiranu on June 03, 2020, 06:40:04 PM
You are a piece of shit.

The fact that you think state sanctioned execution of African Americans is some "excuse" for your imaginary left-boogieman...

You have not ONCE indicated even the remotest of understanding of American culture, and yet you always want to bust in here and tell us that you know more about America than actual Americans do. It's annoying as fuck on a good day, but when it comes to a topic like this it's down right pathetic and shows an absolute lack of any moral character.

Edit: And before you say it, yes I did use to make comments about European affairs, but you will notice it's been a few years since I have because I realised it's annoying as fuck, and when I do I do my best to do as much research on it as possible.

Just know those conservatives you are always sucking up to will one day turn on you, and it won't be pretty. I just hope Scotland has better safeguards in place to avoid radicals taking over than we do.

I think she is post-modern.  You might need a "secret decoder ring" to follow her posts ;-)
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

#286
Quote from: Mike Cl on June 03, 2020, 07:11:50 PM
I think I will rename you Shallow Hal.  You just don't get it, do you.  Blacks are ALREADY  succumbing to the virus at 2 to 3 times the rate as whites.  No matter how bad the virus will get, it will pass.  From the inception of this country, racism has not passed and it appears it will not pass without a fight.  White christianity has put a white, patriarchal, authoritarian stamp on this society.  It will take huge efforts to reverse those trends.   I am NOT for destruction of private property.  Destroying a Target or Walmart will not accomplish anything.  But by showing up in numbers and defying trump cerfews or calls for military action, will.  Confronting the police, where they need to be confronted will gain attention, as well.  Something has to be done.

"Fear is the mind killer" but didn't Americans kill their minds back in the 80s "Closing Of the American Mind".

Peaceful protest is OK, if it makes people feel better.  It is always about the "Feels".  Drinking hard liquor is sooo much easier.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Mike Cl

I will tell a little tale on myself.  In the late 60's my parents were stationed (Dad was a civilian attached to the Army)  in Germany.  One summer I got to visit them (I was in college) and went on a Paris trip sponsored an Army organization.  It was a 3 day trip and I shared a room with a GI.  We went to Place Pigalle to see the Folies Bergère.  Anyway, we were on the streets after 1 am, and it was filled with prostitutes.  Well, until some Black men (from Algeria, I think) were across the street simply walking along.  It was funny--it was like they were a wave--as they proceeded down the street, the prostitutes evaporated for about a half a block--and popped back out after they had passed.  Not even the prostitutes wanted anything to do with the blacks.  I was young, and I was shocked.  I learned then, that Europe was racist. 


Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Blackleaf

Quote from: Mike Cl on June 03, 2020, 08:20:32 PM
I will tell a little tale on myself.  In the late 60's my parents were stationed (Dad was a civilian attached to the Army)  in Germany.  One summer I got to visit them (I was in college) and went on a Paris trip sponsored an Army organization.  It was a 3 day trip and I shared a room with a GI.  We went to Place Pigalle to see the Folies Bergère.  Anyway, we were on the streets after 1 am, and it was filled with prostitutes.  Well, until some Black men (from Algeria, I think) were across the street simply walking along.  It was funny--it was like they were a wave--as they proceeded down the street, the prostitutes evaporated for about a half a block--and popped back out after they had passed.  Not even the prostitutes wanted anything to do with the blacks.  I was young, and I was shocked.  I learned then, that Europe was racist.

That is hilarious. I would take a black friend through that red light district, just to see his amazing super power to make prostitutes disappear. But one of them would probably call the cops on him for suspiciously walking down the road, so better not.

BTW, to give a little credit to my mom (which I can't do often, on account of stuff I won't get into now), she was using one of those apps that connects you with people in your neighborhood. Somebody posted about a "suspicious black man" walking through the neighborhood. She, and basically everyone else's response was, "What is he doing that is suspicious?" Good for the non-racists for calling that person out, but yeesh. As of last December, my sister is married to a black man, and she told me her husband doesn't jog around his own block because he's afraid of that kinda shit happening to him.
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville--

Munch

#289
Quote from: Shiranu on June 03, 2020, 06:40:04 PM
You are a piece of shit.

whatever helps you sleep at night.

QuoteThe fact that you think state sanctioned execution of African Americans is some "excuse" for your imaginary left-boogieman...

Hee, no, bad context, the context is the execution of a black man is now validating the destruction of peoples livelihoods, and you seem fine with just looking the other way on that issue, even when its ruining the lives of other black people there. Stop ignoring that fucking issue already.

QuoteYou have not ONCE indicated even the remotest of understanding of American culture, and yet you always want to bust in here and tell us that you know more about America than actual Americans do. It's annoying as fuck on a good day, but when it comes to a topic like this it's down right pathetic and shows an absolute lack of any moral character.

Its really not that hard to understand, americas not shy about broadcasting its way of life around the world. And lets be honest, you have only 1 view of it, the one that matters to you, while often having the feeling of every other way of living in america can get fucked.

QuoteEdit: And before you say it, yes I did use to make comments about European affairs, but you will notice it's been a few years since I have because I realised it's annoying as fuck, and when I do I do my best to do as much research on it as possible.

you still have your own thoughts on these things, there are no laws saying you can't talk about what you hate and love about other countries.

QuoteJust know those conservatives you are always sucking up to will one day turn on you, and it won't be pretty. I just hope Scotland has better safeguards in place to avoid radicals taking over than we do.

I don't vote for any political party.

QuoteI think I will rename you Shallow Hal.  You just don't get it, do you.  Blacks are ALREADY  succumbing to the virus at 2 to 3 times the rate as whites.  No matter how bad the virus will get, it will pass.  From the inception of this country, racism has not passed and it appears it will not pass without a fight.  White christianity has put a white, patriarchal, authoritarian stamp on this society.  It will take huge efforts to reverse those trends.   I am NOT for destruction of private property.  Destroying a Target or Walmart will not accomplish anything.  But by showing up in numbers and defying trump cerfews or calls for military action, will.  Confronting the police, where they need to be confronted will gain attention, as well.  Something has to be done.

Only as long as I can rename this website the Marxist capital of america.

Yes it will take huge efforts, but rioting just sets it back, and just makes it shit for the lives of people who you want to defend.

And its not trumps curfew even if he's the president, its a world wide curfew. Saying your defying his curfew makes it sound like your trying to claim these lockdowns are some dehumanizing rule he invented, when its actually a rule the world had to come around to for a virus you seem to be forgetting is still happening.

QuoteThe protests aren't about Floyd. He was just the catalyst. The problem is systemic racism, especially in the justice system, which is not unique to America. I don't know what it's like where you are, and I don't presume to understand countries I've never lived in (*clears throat*), but racism is pretty universal. Maybe it's worse here in the supposed "melting pot," but I can't say.

Yes, it is. And most people with are moral grounding wants it to end, along with any other form of bigotry. Problem we're facing in this current era is the heavy handed approach to tackling those issues, because from rioting and destroying peoples livelihoods, to dehumanizing someone else because of their race and gender, as in all forms of race and gender, just to make yourself feel better, it just holds back any real progressing your hoping for.


@Blackleaf



see I can post images too.

QuoteMunch, tone down your bullshit. People are under serious stress and fear for their future. Nobody has to put up with your masturbation.

Much as I know you think I enjoy this, I really don't, I don't like having to throwing shade at people who are just stressed and fearful of what the future holds. But if people are taking what I say out of context or making false assumptions I tend to throw shade back at the the same as its given out, its not personal mind you.

QuoteEspecially because he doesn't even fucking live here.

Hasn't stopped anyone else having their objections of other countries, including my own, but I'm not going to hold that against you.

QuoteQuick question (mostly to gauge your level of awareness): why do you think the people at the protests are wearing masks?

better question, how many people at the protests are wearing masks?

QuoteThe UK is a far more racist country than the US. Generally all Europe is. And in my opinion, they 'know' that perfectly well. LOL

found this just for you, since your showing your national pride a bit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zlIUeQt5XU

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/britain-has-many-major-problems---racism-isn-t-one-of-them


there we go. did I enjoy doing this? not really. feels kinda like having to put on a face in a customer service role.

'Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners' - George Carlin

Blackleaf

You know it's only funny when it's true, right?
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville--

Hydra009

Quote from: Munch on June 03, 2020, 09:49:49 PMbetter question, how many people at the protests are wearing masks?
Not answering is an automatic fail.  Dunno why I expected anything else.

But to answer your stupid question:





Some pretty glaring differences.

Btw, it hasn't escaped my notice that conservatives - suspiciously eager to tarnish these protests - have resorted to concern trolling about a virus they didn't really take seriously at first, and frequently still don't.  It's pretty transparent.  When people are protesting murder, it's time to head back inside, but when Billy Bob has gone three weeks without a haircut, it's freakout time.

drunkenshoe

Quote from: Mike Cl on June 03, 2020, 08:20:32 PM
I will tell a little tale on myself.  In the late 60's my parents were stationed (Dad was a civilian attached to the Army)  in Germany.  One summer I got to visit them (I was in college) and went on a Paris trip sponsored an Army organization.  It was a 3 day trip and I shared a room with a GI.  We went to Place Pigalle to see the Folies Bergère.  Anyway, we were on the streets after 1 am, and it was filled with prostitutes.  Well, until some Black men (from Algeria, I think) were across the street simply walking along.  It was funny--it was like they were a wave--as they proceeded down the street, the prostitutes evaporated for about a half a block--and popped back out after they had passed.  Not even the prostitutes wanted anything to do with the blacks.  I was young, and I was shocked.  I learned then, that Europe was racist.

You know what, there could be another story in there. They could be a group of workers or a specific group in the region and there could be a sub story related to that. The dynamics of 1960s...

Racism is not limited to just skin colour. It's a political concept. In 1960s, when Germany took Turkish workers -men- in, I am sure similar things like that happened with Turks too. But they are not black. They're not slavic white, but they're white. I know the stereotype known in the West is that they're dark skinned people but Anatolian turks are generally not. Otherwise, it is a huge mix. Which is bullshit of course but I actually think this is one the reasons they chose Turks. Not just the relations before. And we know they examined all of them one by one at the beginning up to their teeth. Because it is obvious that these men will have children with German women, go out in public and have relationships with them. There will come generations from it.

But then in today's France, 30 something percent of foriegn marriages, a spouse is African which is the largest group in those type of marriages, the second foreign group is European. The multiracial families and couples are pretty abundant compared to Britain, Germany...etc.

Racism in Europe is different than the US. It's hidden in the class system in a weird way. Britain is very interesting. The class system is solid and nothing gets through. That doesn't seem to happen in the States. We see or know a lot of people from every corner of the world who don't just make but reputation, move up in class, become famous, even be a part of the history of the US...etc. Where are these people in Europe in all that diversity? Maybe I'm wrong, there are and I can't see it.
"science is not about building a body of known 'facts'. ıt is a method for asking awkward questions and subjecting them to a reality-check, thus avoiding the human tendency to believe whatever makes us feel good." - tp

drunkenshoe

#293
It seems that America was/is able to assimilate people. (This is good or bad, I am not discussing that.) Because whatever you have to say about it, it gave something back.

I didn't believe in this until my sister decided to go to the US for a PHD even though I have more than one people in my extended family who got successful and wealthy in the States. Seeing, living through is believing.

It's a very simple comparison. I wrote this before. When my sister left for her PhD and became a res. ass. they have employed a group of students. This is STEM. Not liberal arts. They're always needed. Then an economcial crisis happened. What did/do they do in the American universities? They kept people according to their merits, intelligence, abilities and performance regardless of their race, nation or country of origin and let the rest go. Noone gave a fuck if they are white American born.

What did/do they do in the most European countries? They let dem go foriegn students (paid ass.) regardless of how successful or gifted they are, because they're foriegners. Their general tendency is never to give an open door to begin with. As if they can actually provide the brain stock. LOL

Years passed. One of her papers got published internationally. They are having an international conference with those poster award events for PhDs in Dublin. When she was there, during one of those cocktails a Prof asks her a few times, 'what are you doing in the States? Why don't you come to Europe?' Yap yap yap. She snaps in the end and asks him 'What am I going to do in Europe?' Tells him that why would she choose Europe when she can go to the States where she is actually welcomed for what she can do and work without worrying about her future.

My personal experience is not different, even worse. I have been to one of the world largest aesthetic conferences -among others- when it was held in our capital in Middle East Techincal University. Hundreds of scholars, researchers from 40 countries all around the world. It was huge. Oh my god. The white European scholars and their papers and how they treat the rest. LOL There is a crucial thing about acting like a god's gift on earth, if you can't justify this with what you offer, you'll fall worse and faster than anything. Because this is not a beauty pageant.

The quality of the questions they ask to American scholars alone... The dismissive attitude. That's the word I guess. Their conduct... Why? Because Americans do not bow to European philosophers as if they were deities or approach to certain ideas and movements and schools as if they're fucking scripture, even they support them. They're not culturally conditioned to that to begin with. The traditions in those disciplines they've produced with their own do not allow that. It's not even a conscious strategy. Their repetoire was very diverse, they were very accessible, cooperating. Turkish assistants and student -I was one of them- were able to converse with proper philosophers in every subject you can think of. American scholars were doted upon and others avoided other than their 'political' allies. I have learned so much there.

So this is very simple. I'm sure a lot has changed at both sides since. For the better or worse. Probably for the worse. But you know what? The path is there for America because they have already built it before. Going back there won't be hard.

What has Europe done or doing? Other than limiting all this potential to use in politics? They are limiting as much as everyone outside Western culture to make research about how fucked up their country is. No shit. If you are a middle eastern woman you can even emigrate to Europe via this way. And the quality of these research kept going down of course. But the main fields of course for reserved for the White European Royalty. Preferably men. You wouldn't believe the sexism alone in German universities, academies, conservatoires. Do you see it from outside? Of course not. Of course, it exists in the US but in my opinion, no American academic would take that kind of bullshit without a fight. Esp. in big universites.

Sorry, it got too long...
"science is not about building a body of known 'facts'. ıt is a method for asking awkward questions and subjecting them to a reality-check, thus avoiding the human tendency to believe whatever makes us feel good." - tp

Shiranu

#294
Over 10,000 Americans have now been arrested because the government refused to arrest 4 murderers.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/06/floyd-protests-esper-opposes-trump-threat-send-military-200603145130628.html


Edit: And on that note...

Brooklyn Jail Inmate Pepper Sprayed to Death


https://www.pix11.com/news/local-news/brooklyn/brooklyn-inmate-dies-in-custody-after-being-pepper-sprayed-by-staff-doj
"A little science distances you from God, but a lot of science brings you nearer to Him." - Louis Pasteur

Shiranu

Texas State University Student in Critical Condition After Bean-Bag Round Fractures Skull and Causes Brain Damage

https://www.statesman.com/news/20200603/man-injured-by-austin-police-in-protests-is-texas-state-student-university-says
"A little science distances you from God, but a lot of science brings you nearer to Him." - Louis Pasteur

Shiranu

"A little science distances you from God, but a lot of science brings you nearer to Him." - Louis Pasteur

Baruch

#297
Quote from: Blackleaf on June 03, 2020, 08:30:47 PM
That is hilarious. I would take a black friend through that red light district, just to see his amazing super power to make prostitutes disappear. But one of them would probably call the cops on him for suspiciously walking down the road, so better not.

BTW, to give a little credit to my mom (which I can't do often, on account of stuff I won't get into now), she was using one of those apps that connects you with people in your neighborhood. Somebody posted about a "suspicious black man" walking through the neighborhood. She, and basically everyone else's response was, "What is he doing that is suspicious?" Good for the non-racists for calling that person out, but yeesh. As of last December, my sister is married to a black man, and she told me her husband doesn't jog around his own block because he's afraid of that kinda shit happening to him.

Your brother-in-law is based.  I have heard it isn't safe to be White in E St Louis.  Duh!  I think I would riot and loot over that, burn down White businesses (sarc).
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

drunkenshoe

#298
Apparently, there will be a gathering in front of the Trump Tower in %u0130stanbul to support American people. I have no idea how many people would show up. If it was 5-6 years ago...LOL We have passed all this, we are in a far worse place.
"science is not about building a body of known 'facts'. ıt is a method for asking awkward questions and subjecting them to a reality-check, thus avoiding the human tendency to believe whatever makes us feel good." - tp

Baruch

Quote from: Mike Cl on June 03, 2020, 08:20:32 PM
I will tell a little tale on myself.  In the late 60's my parents were stationed (Dad was a civilian attached to the Army)  in Germany.  One summer I got to visit them (I was in college) and went on a Paris trip sponsored an Army organization.  It was a 3 day trip and I shared a room with a GI.  We went to Place Pigalle to see the Folies Bergère.  Anyway, we were on the streets after 1 am, and it was filled with prostitutes.  Well, until some Black men (from Algeria, I think) were across the street simply walking along.  It was funny--it was like they were a wave--as they proceeded down the street, the prostitutes evaporated for about a half a block--and popped back out after they had passed.  Not even the prostitutes wanted anything to do with the blacks.  I was young, and I was shocked.  I learned then, that Europe was racist.

Or are the prostitutes just avoiding anyone who might be a pimp?
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.