The Craziest Christian Apologetic

[Jagella]

I'm sure we've all rolled our eyeballs up into our heads whenever we've heard at least some apologetics. For me, perhaps the biggest "eye roller" is the "they would have 'produced' the body of the crucified Jesus to disprove the resurrection" argument. In case you're one of the two people who have read or listened to an apologist and have not been acquainted with this argument, it goes something like this: the Jewish religious leaders and/or the Romans were terribly frightened by the emerging Christian sect and wanted to stop it in its tracks. They were especially troubled by the disciples preaching the risen Christ. This belief needed to be stopped at all costs! But how?

According to apologists, if Jesus was still dead in his tomb, why, all the Jewish leaders and/or Romans had to do was go running off to the tomb. They would have broken into the tomb, dragged the rotting corpse out of that grave, and carted it off to downtown Jerusalem. Once there, they would have propped it up for all to see! No doubt everyone who had believed the rumors of Jesus' resurrection would have seen the body and realized their belief just wasn't true. They then would have shrugged their shoulders, mumbled, "oh well," and went back home having given up their faith. The Christian faith in the resurrection has survived, of course, so this scenario never occurred, and it never occurred because Jesus is risen!

I hope I'm not insulting your intelligence, but allow me to point out some weaknesses in this argument. To start, I don't think the Jews and/or Romans were in the business of going out of their way to stop every crazy religious belief people came up with. Even if they did wish to destroy faith in the resurrection, I don't think it's likely they would have "produced" Jesus' body. The Romans, at least, had more effective means to stop anybody whom they saw as a threat--it's called "violence." In addition, I think or at least hope that the Jews and Romans were smart enough to realize that those who believed in the resurrection would be unlikely to be dissuaded by a body that was so badly decomposed that few would have recognized it as the body of Christ!

Anyway, this apologetic is one wacked-out argument. It reminds me of the story of Grinch Who (Tried to Steal) Christmas. At least Dr. Seuss was smart enough to know that stealing Christmas presents, like stealing bodies, won't stop belief.

[Baruch]

Apologetics ... literary analysis of fiction by fan fiction writers (theologians).

[Unbeliever]

No one could have produced the body of Jesus because he never existed.

[Jagella]

Apologetics ... literary analysis of fiction by fan fiction writers (theologians).

Yes. All the evidence apologists present for Jesus is made up of stories--stories that may or may not be true.

[Jagella]

No one could have produced the body of Jesus because he never existed.

Even if he did exist his body may never be found especially if it was buried in a common grave--standard procedure for the Romans when executing criminals.

[Unbeliever]

Have you ever read 'A Skeleton in God's Closet'? It's about an archeologist who finds the skeleton of Jesus, and the ensuing fun.

[Baruch]

No one could have produced the body of Jesus because he never existed.

You can find him in every bakery (bread) and every liquor store (wine).

[Baruch]

Even if he did exist his body may never be found especially if it was buried in a common grave--standard procedure for the Romans when executing criminals.

As mentioned by Christian historian, John Dominic Crossan, he pointed out that Gehenna is the public dump in Roman Jerusalem.  There was trash burning there all the time (your fire will not be put out) and cadavers were eaten by feral dogs.  Maximal non-kosher.  The NT puts it more delicately though.

[Baruch]

Have you ever read 'A Skeleton in God's Closet'? It's about an archeologist who finds the skeleton of Jesus, and the ensuing fun.

The Ossuary of James scandal, and the "other" tomb of Jesus scandal from the same period.  There were lots of people back then, at that location, named Jacob or Yeshua.

[GSOgymrat]

If you told me you worked with a carpenter who was actually and completely dead for three days and then came back to life, I wouldn't believe you. I'm less likely to believe this happened 2,000 years ago, that the carpenter built the entire universe, and you know this because you read it in a book.

[Jagella]

Have you ever read 'A Skeleton in God's Closet'? It's about an archeologist who finds the skeleton of Jesus, and the ensuing fun.

I'll need to put it on my "wish list."

If somebody did find Jesus' skeleton, I doubt if it would be the end of Christianity. Apologists would dig into the trenches ready to fight the discovery coming up with reasons to deny it. I suppose it would be hard to prove even to honest people that any skeleton belonged to Jesus.

I said as much in the OP.

[Cassia]

This guy I worked with specialized in the existence of Jesus. Talked about it all the time. Finally I asked "what is your best piece of evidence? His answer "Jesus came to me in a dream".

This warped thinking reminded me a bit of the Native American's "Ghost Dance", so I told him instead of waiting for boring dreams, I prefer dancing.

They told the people they could dance a new world into being. There would be landslides, earthquakes, and big winds. Hills would pile up on each other. The earth would roll up like a carpet with all the white man's ugly things â€" the stinking new animals, sheep and pigs, the fences, the telegraph poles, the mines and factories. Underneath would be the wonderful old-new world as it had been before the white fat-takers came. ...The white men will be rolled up, disappear, go back to their own continent.
â€" Lame Deer From Wiki Ghost Dance Page

[Jagella]

As mentioned by Christian historian, John Dominic Crossan, he pointed out that Gehenna is the public dump in Roman Jerusalem.  There was trash burning there all the time (your fire will not be put out) and cadavers were eaten by feral dogs.  Maximal non-kosher.  The NT puts it more delicately though.

William Lane Craig argues that the story of Jesus being placed in the tomb of Joseph of Arimathea is likely true because Christians would not make up a story that makes a member of the Sanhedrin look like a nice guy. It seems to me that it is unlikely that a member of the Sanhedrin would offer his tomb for Jesus to be buried in, but Craig doesn't seem to understand that.

In any event, I think the story of Jesus' burial in Joseph's tomb is not likely to be historical, and like Crossan says it is more probable that Jesus ended up dogfood if he ever even existed and was crucified.

[SGOS]

I can't remember where it was that I read a detailed description of the Ghost Dance. The Native Americans were being wiped out, and they had neither the numbers or the technology to do anything about it.  In desperation, they turned to the supernatural and decided they could dance their way to invulnerability.  The white man's bullets would pass right through them as if they had immaterial bodies, and they would prevail.  I don't know who cooked up the idea of the Ghost Dance.  It may have been a well intended medicine man who just wanted to give his brothers one last experience of hope.  I don't know if he believed it or not.  It didn't make any difference if it was true.  The Indians were going to die whether they danced or just offered themselves up to be shot.  I imagine their dying thoughts would have been, "This Ghost Dance thing was supposed to work."  But I would guess that some with a more healthy skepticism would be saying, "Yeah, I thought this thing was probably bullshit."

Christians deal with their own mortality by denying it; "The body rots, but I live on, maybe with a new Mormon body on a different planet, or as some Startrek energy based life form that floats around the universe."  When it comes to head games, modern man isn't much more advanced than Native Americans were with one foot still in the stone age.

[Mike Cl]

I'll need to put it on my "wish list."

If somebody did find Jesus' skeleton, I doubt if it would be the end of Christianity. Apologists would dig into the trenches ready to fight the discovery coming up with reasons to deny it. I suppose it would be hard to prove even to honest people that any skeleton belonged to Jesus.

I said as much in the OP.

You are so right about it would not end christianity.  It will not die.  Take the example of the Millerites of the 1848 or so; their leader predicted, twice, that the world would end on a particular day (in October, I think)--most members sold or gave away all of their possessions and met on a mountain to await the end.  It never came; the leader said he made a math error, the end will come the next  October.  The same process--the end never came.  One would think that would be that for that movement.  Not so;  a good portion reformed in a new movement now called the 7th Day Adventists.   The death of christianity will be long, long and slow long, and it will just peter out.............It is not a movement that needs facts to keep it alive--it just  needs beliefs to live and those don't die by facts.