Author Topic: A Thought Experience  (Read 523 times)

A Thought Experience
« on: April 24, 2020, 05:38:27 PM »
Suppose that we abandon the scientific improvement and let the science stay at the point where it is now.

OK?

We know that the Sun will someday lose its fire and If there is no Sun, so No Life on Earth.

No matter how faraway future it will maintain its fire.

Do you accept that it's OK we won't survive?

Question 2: It may not be in your lifetime and it may be in your great great... grand children's lifetime. Is it OK?

Offline Sal1981

Re: A Thought Experience
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2020, 07:33:24 PM »
Human lived lives aren't static. I don't see how this is feasible without some serious restructuring of society to maintain an indefinite status quo.
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool" --- Richard P. Feynman

Offline Baruch

Re: A Thought Experience
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2020, 09:43:33 PM »
Ever hear of the law of diminishing returns?  Just because science wasn't done in 1900, doesn't mean is isn't done in 2000.  There was a lot of technology that came out of new discoveries 1900 to 1950 ... and most of what happened in 1950 to 2000 merely developed that.  Most of the physical science since 1950 has had very little impact on average people.  Relationship of muons to pions?  Didn't impact much.  The idea that there is an infinity of useful unknown science out there to be discovered, is an artifact of the 20th century, it isn't a real rule.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Online Hydra009

Re: A Thought Experience
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2020, 10:18:40 PM »
Suppose that we abandon the scientific improvement and let the science stay at the point where it is now.
Ok.  Humanity exhausts its resources (since it never developed more efficient techniques or switched resources).  Civilization collapses into a new dark age, one that it no longer has the resources to overcome.  It's possible that it could skip a step and advance again, but it's not certain, perhaps not even likely.

Quote
We know that the Sun will someday lose its fire and If there is no Sun, so No Life on Earth.
That's 4.5 billion years in the future at the earliest.  Suffice it to say that there are numerous and much more pressing existential threats (asteroid impact, nuclear war, pandemic, etc) 

Quote
No matter how faraway future it will maintain its fire.
I originally thought this was just a poetic way of saying "the future can wait", but you could also be talking literally about the sun existing in the future.

Quote
Do you accept that it's OK we won't survive?

Question 2: It may not be in your lifetime and it may be in your great great... grand children's lifetime. Is it OK?
I have no idea what you're asking.

Offline trdsf

Re: A Thought Experience
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2020, 10:27:10 PM »
Suppose that we abandon the scientific improvement and let the science stay at the point where it is now.

OK?

We know that the Sun will someday lose its fire and If there is no Sun, so No Life on Earth.

No matter how faraway future it will maintain its fire.

Do you accept that it's OK we won't survive?

Question 2: It may not be in your lifetime and it may be in your great great... grand children's lifetime. Is it OK?
What do my likes and dislikes have to do with it?
"My faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete, it is total, and I am not going to sit here and be an idle spectator to the diminution, the subversion, the destruction of the Constitution." -- Barbara Jordan

Online Hydra009

Re: A Thought Experience
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2020, 10:29:44 PM »
Ever hear of the law of diminishing returns?  Just because science wasn't done in 1900, doesn't mean is isn't done in 2000.
Considering that (most of us) are living a full 20 years after 2000 and a ton of scientific breakthroughs have happened in that time, it's an indisputable fact that science wasn't done in 2000.

Online Hydra009

Re: A Thought Experience
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2020, 10:30:50 PM »
What do my likes and dislikes have to do with it?
Yeah, that seems strange.  I mean, I'd love it if the sun were to last a trillion years before becoming a white dwarf, but it won't.  Hell, I'd love to live to 200, but that's not in the cards, either.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2020, 11:30:43 PM by Hydra009 »

Offline Shiranu

Re: A Thought Experience
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2020, 08:31:55 AM »
In the Buddhist tradition, the "goal" is to reach a state of nirvana; that is breaking free from the cycle of rebirth, samsara. After all, at every level of rebirth... from the lowest level of demon to the highest level of the gods, life is suffering. "Nothingness" is the only true escape from this reality; even the gods suffer.

This is relevant to your questions in that "the end" does not come when our sun burns out, or even when humanity is long gone. A universe will continue to exist long after that.

But eventually all the suns of the universe will burn out, and all the nebula will run dry. The universe will become unbelievably dark, and unbelievably cold, and eventually even the atoms that make up all matter will decay and cease to exist, and all the energy that ever was will be lost.

At this point the universe will quite literally cease to exist, and everything returns to nothing.

Like mankind, like life itself, the universe is on the path of reaching nirvana. All that we see exists only because of struggle, because of "pain". When all matter and energy finally ceases to exist the universe itself reaches a state of parinirvana.

One day, all suffering will cease to exist. That is something that should be celebrated, not feared.

Offline SGOS

Re: A Thought Experience
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2020, 08:51:35 AM »
Let's not put a stop to science, at least until they develop a Corona Virus vaccination.  After that, we won't need science again, until the next problem comes along.  In the course of my life, new developments in medical science have saved my life on a couple of occasions with new discoveries unknown in my parents time.  How about this for a compromise; We allow science to proceed at it's own pace until I die, at which time, we will burn all the science books, and force the search for knowledge underground and be punishable by death?  Then the Pope can declare victory over knowledge, and simply explain reality to the rest of us from a Christian point of view.  We will tend the land by hand, and the nobility will take care of us.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2020, 08:53:08 AM by SGOS »

Offline Baruch

Re: A Thought Experience
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2020, 10:30:05 AM »
Considering that (most of us) are living a full 20 years after 2000 and a ton of scientific breakthroughs have happened in that time, it's an indisputable fact that science wasn't done in 2000.

Yes, iPhone is such a great invention, compared to the integrated circuit.  The public is easily sold on new gadgets, because ... consumerism.  The transistor is 72 years old.  Sorry, the new science of the 21st century ... Higgs Boson ... I bet that will make your Jetson flying car go go go ;-)  Communism was based on perpetual motion machines (steam engines) and free energy and free automation.  Going solid state electronics is better than steam engines, but there are still physical laws that ignore political idealism.

Not happening, Marx was a failure.  Technical progressivism is Marxism minus the politics.  The more energy you use, the more pollution and heat death are brought about.  This can only be minimized thru 99% reduction of the population.  Thermodynamics is a capitalist propaganda.  I love an old Soviet propaganda film from the space race.  The Soviet Union would find unlimited petroleum on the Moon, and the proletariat wanted to beat the evil capitalists to that.  Politicized science in the US today, is Lysenkoism.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2020, 10:37:27 AM by Baruch »
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Offline aitm

Re: A Thought Experience
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2020, 01:44:47 PM »
Sometimes I wish I had ready access to the drugs you have,
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Re: A Thought Experience
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2020, 03:47:59 PM »
Most people seldom experience thought. I learned this in a thought experiment.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline Baruch

Re: A Thought Experience
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2020, 04:47:29 PM »
Sometimes I wish I had ready access to the drugs you have,

I have a flip phone.  Not young enough to run a "smart" phone.  So I am not bombarded by subliminal messages from Apple or Android.  This is why all young phone users have a irrational craving for buttered popcorn ... and an ice cold Coke.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Offline Baruch

Re: A Thought Experience
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2020, 04:49:13 PM »
Most people seldom experience thought. I learned this in a thought experiment.

If you aren't taught to recognize an experience, it is hard to do.  Like trying to learn to walk on two legs in a quadruped society ;-)  It is satisfactory to the Elite you buy what you are told to and vote for who you are told to.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Re: A Thought Experience
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2020, 07:28:43 PM »
I've never been good at taking orders.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers