How much is lying a part of Christianity?

[Unbeliever]

Yeah, that's about par for the course.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

A rational person who believes in the big sky daddy is lying to himself. If he tries to get others to believe it he's lying to them.

[Jagella]

A rational person who believes in the big sky daddy is lying to himself. If he tries to get others to believe it he's lying to them.

Belief in the "sky daddy" I think in many cases is a self-deception. I've pointed out to Christians many times that the god they believe in is The Invisible Man In The Sky (TIMITS). I backed up my TIMITS model of God in a Christian forum by citing Bible verses demonstrating the Judeo-Christian belief in a god who is invisible, a man, and in the sky. The result was that the moderator in that Christian forum told me not to say "TIMITS"! He said that it was insulting to do so. The Christians there denied the TIMITS model of their god no matter what the evidence for it was.

So the moral of the story is that Christians will deny their own god if they face what it really is. They prefer a god who is nebulous so that they need not face what that god clearly is. A clear view of that god is a truth they must deny.

[SGOS]

The first time I saw a faith healer on TV, it was an experience.  He walked up to the sick guy and slammed both of his hands against the guy's chest, knocking him backwards into the arms of an assistant to keep him from falling on the floor.  This makes sense.  If I guy is really sick, you got to knock him hard and shout at his sickness at the same time.  If he's possessed by a demon, you got to whack him with everything you've got, and even that may not be enough. You may have to send him to the floor and stomp on him, but in the end Jesus will prevail.

[Baruch]

A rational person who believes in the big sky daddy is lying to himself. If he tries to get others to believe it he's lying to them.

People who think their government will save them, are lying to themselves?  Lying to yourself is necessary to avoid insanity.  I rely on my government, even though it is insane to do so.

[Baruch]

Belief in the "sky daddy" I think in many cases is a self-deception. I've pointed out to Christians many times that the god they believe in is The Invisible Man In The Sky (TIMITS). I backed up my TIMITS model of God in a Christian forum by citing Bible verses demonstrating the Judeo-Christian belief in a god who is invisible, a man, and in the sky. The result was that the moderator in that Christian forum told me not to say "TIMITS"! He said that it was insulting to do so. The Christians there denied the TIMITS model of their god no matter what the evidence for it was.

So the moral of the story is that Christians will deny their own god if they face what it really is. They prefer a god who is nebulous so that they need not face what that god clearly is. A clear view of that god is a truth they must deny.

Why are you concerned about other people?  You have freed yourself.

[Jagella]

The first time I saw a faith healer on TV, it was an experience.  He walked up to the sick guy and slammed both of his hands against the guy's chest, knocking him backwards into the arms of an assistant to keep him from falling on the floor.  This makes sense.  If I guy is really sick, you got to knock him hard and shout at his sickness at the same time.  If he's possessed by a demon, you got to whack him with everything you've got, and even that may not be enough. You may have to send him to the floor and stomp on him, but in the end Jesus will prevail.

People have been hurt and even killed by Christian faith healers and exorcists in ways similar to what you have described here. Faith healing is a public-health threat, but politicians won't touch it fearing all those Christians who won't vote for anybody who has "attacked" their religion.

I should also point out that atheists should take it easy with the people who have been scammed or are being scammed by faith healers. Most of the faith healers' victims are not gullible or stupid; they are suffering and are desperate to have their suffering alleviated. We atheists should try to help such people warning them they are being scammed, but we should always be respectful.

Finally, let me explain that I personally know about faith healing and other Christian scams. As a Christian I was duped out of about $900. I remember seeing a faith healer who, not being able to heal me, blamed me for the failed effort telling me that as long as I remain injured, it was due to my unbelief.

[Jagella]

Why are you concerned about other people?  You have freed yourself.

I'm concerned about other people because I want them to be free too. I think we're all better off without religion assuming we do not adopt some other evil.

[SGOS]

I should also point out that atheists should take it easy with the people who have been scammed or are being scammed by faith healers. Most of the faith healers' victims are not gullible or stupid; they are suffering and are desperate to have their suffering alleviated. We atheists should try to help such people warning them they are being scammed, but we should always be respectful.

I agree. I figured I could get away with being a dick here, because there is a small chance that a vulnerable believer would ever read it.

[Unbeliever]

Yeah, they always have the excuse of "You just don't have enough faith!"

[Baruch]

I'm concerned about other people because I want them to be free too. I think we're all better off without religion assuming we do not adopt some other evil.

That is the liberal position of Alexander the Great, Shi Huang Di, Julius Caesar, Leon Trotksy ... we need to liberate the world, for its own good, to bring the benefit of "wokeness" to the dirty barbarians. I don't claim to know what is best for other people.  I am not even sure what is best for myself.

[Jagella]

I agree. I figured I could get away with being a dick here, because there is a small chance that a vulnerable believer would ever read it.

I certainly understand anybody getting a bit disgusted with people who just won't listen and continue to hurt themselves. But Christian indoctrination is very powerful. It's like telling a person to stop smoking to avoid cancer, but they continue to smoke. They don't continue to smoke because they're foolish--they keep smoking because they're addicted. Religion is like an addiction in which people cannot stop harming themselves even if they know they're harming themselves.

So I'd advise you to respectfully warn people if you know they're involved with faith healers.

[Jagella]

Yeah, they always have the excuse of "You just don't have enough faith!"

If a lack of faith is the problem, then the faith healer could be held guilty. His lack of faith could be the culprit in a case of a sick person not being cured. Why blame the victim?

[Unbeliever]

Why blame the victim? Isn't that obvious?

[Baruch]

Why blame the victim? Isn't that obvious?

To not do the wrong thing, would overturn civilization!