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A good third of the Koran...

Started by Gregory, February 28, 2020, 10:16:25 PM

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Gregory

A good third of the Koran doesn't make sense in Arabic.  Arabic is meant to be the closest language to perfection but not in this case.  Syro-Aramaic is a much better match.

SoldierofFortune

Oh, fantastic argument.
i used to be Muslim and after i've just read your point and i've happened to be Muslim.
hmm, interesting.

Baruch

Irony ... no language is pure, particularly as used by Puritans.

All religions are based on hagiography, not history.  Islam was most conscious of this, and did the best effort to cover up the truth.

BTW … I am a student of religions, languages and history … including Islam.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Munch

Aww, guess I'll have to tell my nephew that Muhammad won't come visiting on his flying pink unicorn from the moon then
'Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners' - George Carlin

Baruch

Quote from: Munch on February 29, 2020, 05:37:45 AM
Aww, guess I'll have to tell my nephew that Muhammad won't come visiting on his flying pink unicorn from the moon then

No, on a former US President, Burach Obama ;-)
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Unbeliever

Quote from: Baruch on February 29, 2020, 01:29:27 AM
All religions are based on hagiography, not history.


Yeah, that and syncretism.
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Unbeliever

Quote from: Baruch on February 29, 2020, 05:51:42 AM
No, on a former US President, Burach Obama ;-)

I just noticed the similarity between "Burach" and "Baruch" - are you sure you're not him?
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Baruch

Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

Quote from: Unbeliever on February 29, 2020, 01:32:23 PM
I just noticed the similarity between "Burach" and "Baruch" - are you sure you're not him?

That was the point of the joke, on Obama, not me.  My middle name isn't Hussein.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Sal1981

Language is more like a cipher than anything. Symbols we use to determine a common meaning and understanding.

Baruch

Quote from: Sal1981 on March 05, 2020, 11:15:28 AM
Language is more like a cipher than anything. Symbols we use to determine a common meaning and understanding.

Yes!

But there has to be a common meaning/understanding between the people in conversation (or one directional from historical author to reader).  Semaphore means nothing in itself, it is a channel, not data.  Triggered data on one end is signaled to triggered data on the other end.  Regular information theory is based on the channel and data being the same.  As if the FM frequency is the same as the radio station content.  Without humans on each end, a decrypted cypher is simply gibberish translated into new gibberish.  Like the Easter Island wood carvings.

So with the Quran for example, that is a particular political-economy speaking out of about 750 CE into the present.  It means something, to Muslims on this end, and like all scripture it can't be cross-examined because the communication is one-way.  The Latin Bible is a different political-economy speaking out of about 350 CE into the present ... while hitchhiking on the back of yet another political-economy speaking out of 150 CE.  Futuristic idealists of course want to jettison the past, it is too constricting.  But even if you try to ignore the past, you are the product of it.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Gregory

Quote from: Baruch on March 05, 2020, 12:40:16 PM
Yes!

But there has to be a common meaning/understanding between the people in conversation (or one directional from historical author to reader).  Semaphore means nothing in itself, it is a channel, not data.  Triggered data on one end is signaled to triggered data on the other end.  Regular information theory is based on the channel and data being the same.  As if the FM frequency is the same as the radio station content.  Without humans on each end, a decrypted cypher is simply gibberish translated into new gibberish.  Like the Easter Island wood carvings.

So with the Quran for example, that is a particular political-economy speaking out of about 750 CE into the present.  It means something, to Muslims on this end, and like all scripture it can't be cross-examined because the communication is one-way.  The Latin Bible is a different political-economy speaking out of about 350 CE into the present ... while hitchhiking on the back of yet another political-economy speaking out of 150 CE.  Futuristic idealists of course want to jettison the past, it is too constricting.  But even if you try to ignore the past, you are the product of it.

We all products of our past, but when the past is simply gibberish to us, we are not communing with the past, we are simply reciting in an echo chamber of our own desire.

Baruch

Quote from: Gregory on March 05, 2020, 08:20:04 PM
We all products of our past, but when the past is simply gibberish to us, we are not communing with the past, we are simply reciting in an echo chamber of our own desire.

That is what "woke" is.  We had this in the 60s, we called it "cool".  As a Baby Boomer, I am supposed to be entitled to anything I want, anytime, anyplace, at the expense of anyone other than myself.  If it feels good, just do it.  If you can't do it for yourself, organize a pressure group to get the government to do it for you.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Gregory

Quote from: Baruch on March 05, 2020, 08:39:54 PM
That is what "woke" is.  We had this in the 60s, we called it "cool".  As a Baby Boomer, I am supposed to be entitled to anything I want, anytime, anyplace, at the expense of anyone other than myself.  If it feels good, just do it.  If you can't do it for yourself, organize a pressure group to get the government to do it for you.

Satanism has never been big, except with kooks.

Baruch

Quote from: Gregory on March 05, 2020, 08:42:16 PM
Satanism has never been big, except with kooks.

The LeVey Satanism was a San Francisco treat, like Rice-a-Roni.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.