Author Topic: New Here and Need Some Help  (Read 545 times)

New Here and Need Some Help
« on: February 24, 2020, 08:44:40 PM »
On 2/20 my 24 year old daughter died in an auto accident.  The last 4 days have been a nightmare.  I have been confronted with family friends who have lost loved ones too.  When I ask them what helped them through this, extremely horrible, situation their answer is God.  I have no God.

So, I am here hoping that someone can help me.  When you have no God what helps?  I have cried nonstop.  She was my world. If every human was like my girl this planet would be perfect.  She was my hiking partner who helped me find waterfalls, Timber Rattlesnakes and Green Salamanders in the SC mountains. I mention that to show you just how special she was.  Her love for nature was beyond. It kills me to know that I will never see her again.

Thanks for any help.

Re: New Here and Need Some Help
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2020, 08:53:44 PM »
I'd like to help you in this time of loss, but I've never been in the situation, so I don't know that I can help. I've never had any loved ones to lose (no family, no friends, no one), so whatever might work for me likely wouldn't work for you. Not everyone can be stoic about such things, or take comfort from the temporariness of all life. I don't know how I can help, and it hurts to not be able to.

God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Offline aitm

Re: New Here and Need Some Help
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2020, 10:44:46 PM »
Frankly people who claim they were helped by god show no more nor less pain and suffering than anyone else. They simply say such because they need the idea that a god was there for them. Belief in a god does not in any way better ones misery or lesson ones pain. People move on if they can and don’t if they can’t. Makes no difference whether or not a “god” is involved.

If you think someone experiences less pain because they believe you’re wrong. If you think people with no belief experience more pain, you’re wrong. God is simply an invisible shoulder that does nothing but make the believer say it made them feel better with absolutely no idea if it really did.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Re: New Here and Need Some Help
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2020, 08:14:58 AM »
I've never been religious and I've lost an average number of relatives. Never occured to me to ask a god why he let that guy stab my wife to death for the $87 in her purse.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Online Baruch

Re: New Here and Need Some Help
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2020, 10:20:52 AM »
It takes 5 years, if you work at it, to mourn.  Religious or not.  Claim is, the loss of a child is the greatest loss.

"The five stages, denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance are a part of the framework that makes up our learning to live with the one we lost. They are tools to help us frame and identify what we may be feeling. But they are not stops on some linear timeline in grief."

My daughter is 29.  I worry about her every day, though she is a good person.  In some respects, as the token theist, I would have relief of a sort, if she passed on.  I just prefer that happens after I am gone! ;-)  Think on all the happy times you had together.  Talk to others who have gone thru this tragedy before you.  Lost my father 35 years ago, my mother 3 years ago.  I miss them every day, not finished stage 5 with my mom.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2020, 10:34:45 AM by Baruch »
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Re: New Here and Need Some Help
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2020, 01:53:01 PM »
I'm very stoic about death, it's just a thing that has to happen to all of us eventually. I may not like it, but there it is, in my face all day every day. I think about it a lot, only because then it's not so scary. All kinds of good pithy aphorisms can be spouted, but in the end they don't help alleviate the pain someone feels at the death of a loved one.
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Offline Mr.Obvious

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Re: New Here and Need Some Help
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2020, 06:37:55 PM »
I can't picture anything harder than the loss like you describe. I am terribly sorry for this tragedy.

I don't imagine I can take away any pain. But remember that this pain is so intense directly because of all the good times you had together. And those moments did happen.
So few of all the people who could be, end up being. And none of us can tell how much time we have. All is fleeting,  including our experiences. But that does not render them without impact or significance.
Hold onto her memory. The pain is hard, but it is validation of her being.and even if it is by the hole she leaves behind in your soul, it marks who she is. And in that way, she will always be with you.

Strength, man.

I am sorry.
"If we have to go down, we go down together!"
- Your mum, requesting 69 last night.

Atheist Mantis does not pray.

Offline Mr.Obvious

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Re: New Here and Need Some Help
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2020, 12:19:06 PM »

Pretentious proselytizing removed.

-Xenu
I know you're new and all... and the OP isn't really around anymore, but you're not helping.

In fact, I find it pretty disrespectful to spam such a vulnerable thread made in such a difficult time in a poor attempt to get someone hooked on your brand of bullshit.

If you want to discuss and debate things with people here, fine. There is a time and place for everything.
This is not it.
The man is hurting. The man is suffering. The man has made clear the idea of gods do nothing for him. The man does not need three links to your website.
Speak from the heart of keep quiet.

If Dthor68 points out he dissagrees with me, I'll retract everything I just said and even apologize for speaking out, in his stead.
But seeing as I don't think he's around anymore, I will voice how low a blow I find this.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2020, 02:23:34 PM by _Xenu_ »
"If we have to go down, we go down together!"
- Your mum, requesting 69 last night.

Atheist Mantis does not pray.

Offline SGOS

Re: New Here and Need Some Help
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2020, 01:50:03 PM »
On 2/20 my 24 year old daughter died in an auto accident.  The last 4 days have been a nightmare.  I have been confronted with family friends who have lost loved ones too.  When I ask them what helped them through this, extremely horrible, situation their answer is God.  I have no God.

So, I am here hoping that someone can help me.  When you have no God what helps?  I have cried nonstop.  She was my world. If every human was like my girl this planet would be perfect.  She was my hiking partner who helped me find waterfalls, Timber Rattlesnakes and Green Salamanders in the SC mountains. I mention that to show you just how special she was.  Her love for nature was beyond. It kills me to know that I will never see her again.

Thanks for any help.
If you happen by again, first, I'm very sorry to hear about your daughter.  Few of us have to deal with the death of a child.  A close friend went through that with a son of the same age, and it is devastating, way beyond the death of a beloved parent.  You daughter sounds like a wonderful person.  I'm particularly moved by her interest in nature, which I share.  I can't think of much that could be more wonderful than sharing the outdoors with a grown daughter who is just beginning her adult life.

In all honesty, I cannot take away your grief.  I know it's painful, and when I feel that, I try to embrace it fully.  I think this helps, as counter intuitive as it sounds.  I think it helps it go away.  Eventually, that grief will become fond memories of a beautiful person you will never forget, and it's not bad.

Obviously, I don't believe a god helps this in anyway.  Theists grieve too, and if they didn't, I'd worry about them.  You situation is unique, but there is nothing abnormal about your response to it.  It will get better.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2020, 01:53:03 PM by SGOS »

Offline Mr.Obvious

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Re: New Here and Need Some Help
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2020, 10:22:51 AM »
I did post on this thread earlier, but I think I was not supposed to give links in my first 10 posts.

You can see your daughter again - the Bible teaches the resurrection hope.   Why would the Creator of life not be able to restore life or even recreate life?  I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses btw.  There is much encouragement on our website - using death loved one as search words:

https://www.jw.org/en/search/?q=death+loved+one

Our website is free - there are videos, music and encouraging articles for those who grieve the loss of a loved one.

And with different search words:

https://www.jw.org/en/search/?q=loved+one+dies

I recommend the brochure entitled "When Someone you love Dies."   Also see this brief video on the latter link:

https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/?item=pub-jwbcov_201805_27_VIDEO&appLanguage=E

I am going to watch it again now myself.

It's still in poor taste to post this, Newt.
For reasons mentioned above, on my part.

Please have the decency to remove your post yourself.
"If we have to go down, we go down together!"
- Your mum, requesting 69 last night.

Atheist Mantis does not pray.

Re: New Here and Need Some Help
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2020, 08:31:50 AM »
I know you're new and all... and the OP isn't really around anymore, but you're not helping.

In fact, I find it pretty disrespectful to spam such a vulnerable thread made in such a difficult time in a poor attempt to get someone hooked on your brand of bullshit.

If you want to discuss and debate things with people here, fine. There is a time and place for everything.
This is not it.
The man is hurting. The man is suffering. The man has made clear the idea of gods do nothing for him. The man does not need three links to your website.
Speak from the heart of keep quiet.

If Dthor68 points out he dissagrees with me, I'll retract everything I just said and even apologize for speaking out, in his stead.
But seeing as I don't think he's around anymore, I will voice how low a blow I find this.

I was trying to comfort a man who is suffering - if you check out the links I posted you would have realized that.

So, I take it you do not want me to post links to our website or to quote our literature?

If I didn't care I wouldn't have posted.

Re: New Here and Need Some Help
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2020, 11:02:52 AM »
It's still in poor taste to post this, Newt.
For reasons mentioned above, on my part.

Please have the decency to remove your post yourself.

I removed my post - but only because you asked me to.

But I would like to know specifically why you found my post offensive.

Btw - I did post from my heart in all honesty.

Offline Mr.Obvious

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Re: New Here and Need Some Help
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2020, 06:34:53 PM »
I removed my post - but only because you asked me to.

But I would like to know specifically why you found my post offensive.

Btw - I did post from my heart in all honesty.

Thank you for that. I posted my reasons for disliking your previous posts above.

If I need elaborate, let's do so via pm.

This thread is about something far too serious to start a meta-debate. Let's not do that here.
"If we have to go down, we go down together!"
- Your mum, requesting 69 last night.

Atheist Mantis does not pray.

Offline trdsf

Re: New Here and Need Some Help
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2020, 08:19:51 PM »
On 2/20 my 24 year old daughter died in an auto accident.  The last 4 days have been a nightmare.  I have been confronted with family friends who have lost loved ones too.  When I ask them what helped them through this, extremely horrible, situation their answer is God.  I have no God.

So, I am here hoping that someone can help me.  When you have no God what helps?  I have cried nonstop.  She was my world. If every human was like my girl this planet would be perfect.  She was my hiking partner who helped me find waterfalls, Timber Rattlesnakes and Green Salamanders in the SC mountains. I mention that to show you just how special she was.  Her love for nature was beyond. It kills me to know that I will never see her again.

Thanks for any help.
Unfortunately, the only answer I have is, "hang on".  I too have suffered the loss of a child, although in my case my daughter was stillborn, I didn't have 24 years of growing love and attachment while a child grew into an independent person.

What helps, or at least what helped me, is to know that this isn't personal.  The universe (or god) is not out to get you.  It's absolutely fucking awful and anyone who suggests otherwise is an idiot, but it's not personal.  Later, I came to think that if I could get through that in one emotional piece, then nothing else I ever experienced in my entire life could conceivably be as horrible.  That's kept me going through some rough times since... your mileage may vary.

Above and beyond all else, please understand that this is not a punishment, however terrible it is.  And it is terrible.  But you can own that and let it make you stronger in the future.

Which is really no help at all right now, and I wish I were there to give you a hug, which would probably help a whole lot more at the moment.
"My faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete, it is total, and I am not going to sit here and be an idle spectator to the diminution, the subversion, the destruction of the Constitution." -- Barbara Jordan