Author Topic: Is it natural?  (Read 348 times)

Offline Baruch

Re: Is it natural?
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2020, 10:30:42 AM »
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Should we fear God? Should we love God? It's pretty hard to do both, as is pointed out in 1John 4:18

Neither/both.  Western people think that there are only two alternatives.

I find I can't love G-d, I have to struggle for gratitude, though it is most important to express gratitude to other people, not G-d.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2020, 10:32:33 AM by Baruch »
Zampa xiquihto.  Amo nimitzcuamachilia.
Say it again.  I don't understand you.

Offline Baruch

Re: Is it natural?
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2020, 10:31:34 AM »
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Yeah, just like I've been told that "hate" means "love less."

The opposite of love is neglect.  Hate is negative love.  Both love and hate are obsession.
Zampa xiquihto.  Amo nimitzcuamachilia.
Say it again.  I don't understand you.

Offline Draconic Aiur

Re: Is it natural?
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2020, 12:37:38 PM »
No. Neglect is the middle.

Offline Baruch

Re: Is it natural?
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2020, 02:54:35 PM »
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No. Neglect is the middle.

Love to hate?  Hate to love?
Zampa xiquihto.  Amo nimitzcuamachilia.
Say it again.  I don't understand you.

Offline Baruch

Re: Is it natural?
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2020, 03:02:35 PM »
Many here, including Acrobatic Detective should enjoy this ...

This is what you shall do: Love the earth and sun and the animals, despise riches, give alms to every one that asks, stand up for the stupid and crazy, devote your income and labor to others, hate tyrants, argue not concerning God, have patience and indulgence toward the people, take off your hat to nothing known or unknown or to any man or number of men, go freely with powerful uneducated persons and with the young and with the mothers of families, read these leaves in the open air every season of every year of your life, re-examine all you have been told at school or church or in any book, dismiss whatever insults your own soul, and your very flesh shall be a great poem and have the richest fluency not only it its words but in the silent lines of its lips and face and between the lashes of your eyes and in every motion and joint of your body. - Walt Whitman

Not bad for a special service today at the Unitarian-Universalist fellowship, based around the Tu B'sh'vat arbor day holiday.
Zampa xiquihto.  Amo nimitzcuamachilia.
Say it again.  I don't understand you.

Re: Is it natural?
« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2020, 03:45:31 PM »
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Many here, including Acrobatic Detective should enjoy this ...

This is what you shall do: Love the earth and sun and the animals, despise riches, give alms to every one that asks, stand up for the stupid and crazy, devote your income and labor to others, hate tyrants, argue not concerning God, have patience and indulgence toward the people, take off your hat to nothing known or unknown or to any man or number of men, go freely with powerful uneducated persons and with the young and with the mothers of families, read these leaves in the open air every season of every year of your life, re-examine all you have been told at school or church or in any book, dismiss whatever insults your own soul, and your very flesh shall be a great poem and have the richest fluency not only it its words but in the silent lines of its lips and face and between the lashes of your eyes and in every motion and joint of your body. - Walt Whitman

Not bad for a special service today at the Unitarian-Universalist fellowship, based around the Tu B'sh'vat arbor day holiday.
That is clearly NOT a christian message!!
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Baruch

Re: Is it natural?
« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2020, 04:52:23 PM »
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That is clearly NOT a christian message!!

Of course not.  Walt Whitman wasn't a Christian.  Neither was Constantine.
Zampa xiquihto.  Amo nimitzcuamachilia.
Say it again.  I don't understand you.

Re: Is it natural?
« Reply #22 on: February 09, 2020, 06:10:51 PM »
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Of course not.  Walt Whitman wasn't a Christian.  Neither was Constantine.
Yeah, but that is what christians tell you their religion teaches.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Re: Is it natural?
« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2020, 06:20:20 PM »
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Of course not.  Walt Whitman wasn't a Christian.  Neither was Constantine.

Neither was Jesus...
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“Let others pride themselves about how many pages they have written; I'd rather boast about the ones I've read.”
― Jorge Luis Borges

Offline Baruch

Re: Is it natural?
« Reply #24 on: February 09, 2020, 08:43:22 PM »
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Yeah, but that is what christians tell you their religion teaches.

That explains why your driveway has gotten fake resurfacing every year ... age challenged?  Never believe a used religion salesmen ... sheesh!
Zampa xiquihto.  Amo nimitzcuamachilia.
Say it again.  I don't understand you.

Offline Baruch

Re: Is it natural?
« Reply #25 on: February 09, 2020, 08:44:12 PM »
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Neither was Jesus...

Correct ... though only a religious fiction, what is portrayed in the Gospels is a BuJew.  Not Gentile at all, and not exactly kosher either.
Zampa xiquihto.  Amo nimitzcuamachilia.
Say it again.  I don't understand you.

Re: Is it natural?
« Reply #26 on: February 09, 2020, 09:21:31 PM »
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Discovering my own atheism was a very uplifting experience, the kind that comes with discoveries about self.  It was the feeling of enlightenment.  My fear of Hell held on a bit longer, even while I knew there was NO such a place.  Being taught about a vengeful god starting somewhere around age two or three makes an impression that is more easily intellectually shaken off as one matures, but takes longer to emotionally expunge. 

I am going through that right now. Intellectually, I gave up hell long before becoming an atheist, but I still tried to live to avoid it. I was hedging my bets by being an active member of my church. But, now that I'm without one, I have to really make that emotional jail break.
"Who do I think I am? Good question, really, and I'll answer like this: I've seen too much to be Robin, but I'm still too optimistic to be Batman. I'm Nightwing."

Offline Baruch

Re: Is it natural?
« Reply #27 on: February 09, 2020, 09:27:07 PM »
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I am going through that right now. Intellectually, I gave up hell long before becoming an atheist, but I still tried to live to avoid it. I was hedging my bets by being an active member of my church. But, now that I'm without one, I have to really make that emotional jail break.

Family can drag you in, if you never were in before (my case).  If you are single, then your situation is under your own control.  Aristotle said, humans are a thinking animal ... he was wrong ;-)  We are "emos".
Zampa xiquihto.  Amo nimitzcuamachilia.
Say it again.  I don't understand you.

Re: Is it natural?
« Reply #28 on: February 09, 2020, 09:50:09 PM »
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Yeah, but that is what christians tell you their religion teaches.

There are Christians who really do teach this and interpret the bible this way. But they also practice a more loving and open expression of Christianity (e.g. Richard Rohr) than is historical. It's something I was thinking about today. The more progressive the expression the further it is from traditional Christianity. It is then deemed heretical by traditional / conservative Christians. It's a strange irony. To be what Christianity claims to be, you have to be less Christian.
"Who do I think I am? Good question, really, and I'll answer like this: I've seen too much to be Robin, but I'm still too optimistic to be Batman. I'm Nightwing."

Offline SGOS

Re: Is it natural?
« Reply #29 on: February 09, 2020, 09:55:10 PM »
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I am going through that right now. Intellectually, I gave up hell long before becoming an atheist, but I still tried to live to avoid it. I was hedging my bets by being an active member of my church. But, now that I'm without one, I have to really make that emotional jail break.
When I gave up trying to believe in a god, it was like overturning a garbage can.  Most of the intellectually absurd ideas came out in a big heap and were easily swept away, but much of the irrational emotional stuff imprinted in my early childhood were like maggots sticking to the insides of the can and still had to dry up and fall off.  It wasn't a big project, and I don't remember working hard to clean up the mess.  Left alone, it seemed to decompose and go away on its own.  But the years of struggle prior to my conversion trying to make sense out of the confusion and contradictions of theism, including those other than Christianity was a considerable effort, but a wasted effort as no sense could be made out of any of it.

A reality without a god seems to resemble what a world with god looks like.  Some things happen, and other things don't.  There is a combination of good and evil, some of which I can control, and much of it that I cannot.  Take the supernatural out of it, and it's still the same.

 

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