Author Topic: Hello world  (Read 719 times)

Hello world
« on: February 02, 2020, 10:41:56 PM »
Hi everyone,
I am a lifelong Catholic. But on a recent work trip, I decided to put on a documentary about Greek gods. It was during this documentary that I had a thought that turned into more of a revelation.

Though I've heard the question asked by non-theists before, for some reason this time it hit me right in the jellies. How was the Old Testament God any different than the Greek gods? How is the Genesis creation story(ies) any different than the Greek creation stories? If I was born in Saudi Arabia or India or China, would I be Christian? I think the obvious answer is no. I’d be Muslim, Hindu, or Buddhist respectively. So how do I support my beliefs in Christianity? Does it have a case (objectively) to be any more true than any other religion (e.g. Hinduism or Pantheism)? I no longer think so.

Rick Gervais' quote (which I found tonight), sums up my current thinking.

Quote
"There have been nearly 3000 gods so far but only yours exists. The others are silly made up nonsense. But not yours. Yours is real."
"I'm a talking chimpanzee in a hat and you're a grown man in a bat suit. Let them have this."

Offline Sal1981

Re: Hello world
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2020, 10:43:36 PM »
I love Ricky Gervais' new Netflix show After Life.

Welcome to AF.
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool" --- Richard P. Feynman

Re: Hello world
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2020, 10:47:04 PM »
I haven't seen it yet, but I am looking forward to watching it.
"I'm a talking chimpanzee in a hat and you're a grown man in a bat suit. Let them have this."

Re: Hello world
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2020, 11:44:28 PM »
Welcome, Acrob (too lazy to type the whole name).  And I agree with your suspicions.  And I entirely agree with you in that religious beliefs is a function of geography and not facts or the teachings of real people.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline SGOS

Re: Hello world
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2020, 08:21:07 AM »
How was the Old Testament God any different than the Greek gods?
How is the new Testament God any different than the Greek gods?  I think the real question is why are the two the same?

How is the Genesis creation story(ies) any different than the Greek creation stories?
How is the Bible any different than the Iliad?  I had to read the Iliad in high school.  It reminded me of the Bible.  Homer may have written the Bible from all I could tell. 

I'm a former Lutheran.  I tried to hang onto my belief, but I was more preoccupied with the unexplained contradictions in religious thought.  I was brainwashed as a child, and it took me over 50 years to realize I was an atheist.  I called myself a Christian, but I never found God.  "You didn't try hard enough," is the old saw that theists like to fling at the agnostic.  I tried to find a way to believe harder than my Christian friends.  I could imagine a God well enough, but when I got off my ass long enough to think, rather than imagine, no God was there.

If I was born in Saudi Arabia or India or China, would I be Christian? I think the obvious answer is no. I’d be Muslim, Hindu, or Buddhist respectively. So how do I support my beliefs in Christianity? Does it have a case (objectively) to be any more true than any other religion (e.g. Hinduism or Pantheism)? I no longer think so.
Well the occasional theist switches gods, but only because it's easier to imagine a god that more closely suits their fancy.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2020, 08:25:51 AM by SGOS »

Offline aitm

Re: Hello world
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2020, 09:54:12 AM »
Welcome, your nick is appropriate. In order to believe in gods, one truly needs to do mental acrobatics.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Offline SGOS

Re: Hello world
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2020, 10:06:31 AM »
Welcome, your nick is appropriate. In order to believe in gods, one truly needs to do mental acrobatics.
Apologetics = mental acrobatics.  They teach this in seminaries, so I've been told.  It raises bullshit to the level of an academic discipline.  But there's a lot of other stuff about theism that is just plain nuts too.

Offline Baruch

Re: Hello world
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2020, 10:27:34 AM »
Welcome also.

Yes, the Greeks are cool.  Dolmas of the world, unite!

Roman Catholic = Roman pagan with added Jewish bits.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Offline Baruch

Re: Hello world
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2020, 10:29:12 AM »
Apologetics = mental acrobatics.  They teach this in seminaries, so I've been told.  It raises bullshit to the level of an academic discipline.  But there's a lot of other stuff about theism that is just plain nuts too.

Polemics and apologetics.  Don't fight with one hand tied behind your back!
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Re: Hello world
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2020, 01:43:01 PM »
Hi everyone,
I am a lifelong Catholic. But on a recent work trip, I decided to put on a documentary about Greek gods. It was during this documentary that I had a thought that turned into more of a revelation.

Though I've heard the question asked by non-theists before, for some reason this time it hit me right in the jellies. How was the Old Testament God any different than the Greek gods? How is the Genesis creation story(ies) any different than the Greek creation stories? If I was born in Saudi Arabia or India or China, would I be Christian? I think the obvious answer is no. I’d be Muslim, Hindu, or Buddhist respectively. So how do I support my beliefs in Christianity? Does it have a case (objectively) to be any more true than any other religion (e.g. Hinduism or Pantheism)? I no longer think so.

Rick Gervais' quote (which I found tonight), sums up my current thinking.



Good questions!

And welcome to our humble abode.

Have you ever heard of "the outsider test of faith"? It sounds a bit like your notion of whether you'd be a Christian had you been born elsewhere, in a different culture.

Also, concerning the Bible's God, it isn't portrayed as any sort of "loving" God at all:
http://nullgod.com/index.php/topic,164.0.html

In fact, it's fairly monstrous, much like the Greek gods, except perhaps even worse.
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Re: Hello world
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2020, 04:32:52 PM »
Welcome, Acrob (too lazy to type the whole name).  And I agree with your suspicions.  And I entirely agree with you in that religious beliefs is a function of geography and not facts or the teachings of real people.

Acrob will do just fine. :)
"I'm a talking chimpanzee in a hat and you're a grown man in a bat suit. Let them have this."

Re: Hello world
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2020, 04:36:45 PM »
Well the occasional theist switches gods, but only because it's easier to imagine a god that more closely suits their fancy.

It's not typically a devote Catholic switching to Islam or a devout Hindu switching to Judaism, but you're right. It happens, but not that often and usually not that drastically.
"I'm a talking chimpanzee in a hat and you're a grown man in a bat suit. Let them have this."

Re: Hello world
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2020, 04:37:33 PM »
Welcome, your nick is appropriate. In order to believe in gods, one truly needs to do mental acrobatics.

lol fair enough
"I'm a talking chimpanzee in a hat and you're a grown man in a bat suit. Let them have this."

Re: Hello world
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2020, 04:39:50 PM »

Good questions!

And welcome to our humble abode.

Have you ever heard of "the outsider test of faith"? It sounds a bit like your notion of whether you'd be a Christian had you been born elsewhere, in a different culture.

Also, concerning the Bible's God, it isn't portrayed as any sort of "loving" God at all:
http://nullgod.com/index.php/topic,164.0.html

In fact, it's fairly monstrous, much like the Greek gods, except perhaps even worse.

I have not heard of it, but thank you for the suggestions. I will look into the outside test and the null god.
"I'm a talking chimpanzee in a hat and you're a grown man in a bat suit. Let them have this."

Offline Mr.Obvious

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Re: Hello world
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2020, 06:20:58 PM »
Welcome to our little band of heathens, detective.

Hope ye find what ye seek.
"If we have to go down, we go down together!"
- Your mum, requesting 69 last night.

Atheist Mantis does not pray.