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Wuhan Corona virus

Started by Sal1981, January 28, 2020, 09:04:46 PM

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GSOgymrat

#1095
Quote from: Hydra009 on April 13, 2020, 12:45:26 AM
Anyone who says no to the first question is an idiot of the highest order, displaying not only a startling lack of empathy but also a fundamental ignorance of how interconnected humanity is.  Someone else not getting the healthcare they need doesn't affect just that person, it ripples out to other people.

The people who make arguments against universal healthcare tend to emphasize individual behavior rather than the outcomes of systems. The argument often goes, "Why should I have to suffer for someone else's poor choices? If some idiot decides to smoke tobacco knowing it will cause lung cancer why should I have to pay taxes to fund his very expensive cancer treatments?" Some people really focus on blame (blame is a barrier to empathy). Opponents also tend to believe large organizations, like the federal government, are inherently corrupt or wasteful. Another argument is that if healthcare is "free" people will use resources unnecessarily. Then there is the argument "universal health is socialism, socialism is evil, therefore universal healthcare is evil", often touted by "free market" true believers. Another argument is that universal healthcare is too expensive and America can't afford it.


Shiranu

#1096
Using the Chinese numbers back in February, I predicted it would be 3.1 million with a 2.13% fatality rate over 6 months, with a note that I thought there numbers were lower than reality.

At the moment global totals are currently sitting at 1.85 million and a 6.2% fatality rate over 4 1/2 months.

I'm kinda depressed at how spot on I seem to have gotten the numbers, though the fatality is off (thanks to China lying about the numbers). But it is morbidly interesting to see how mathematical a virus can be.


------------

It's interesting to go back and read the beginning of this thread vs now. I actually think it's important, because it showcases just how destructive the media losing it's trustworthiness is. If the mainstream news wasn't now just editorials instead of unbiased journalism I really believe people would have taken this seriously much earlier and taken many more steps to protect themselves and their populations.

Unfortunately I doubt the United States would have been one of those countries either way.
"A little science distances you from God, but a lot of science brings you nearer to Him." - Louis Pasteur

PopeyesPappy

Quote from: GSOgymrat on April 12, 2020, 10:23:16 PM
When discussing healthcare with someone my first question is whether they agree that everyone should have access to affordable healthcare. If they disagree, we are not going to get anywhere. I can discuss the advantages and disadvantages of different healthcare systems but I believe everyone should have access to healthcare, just as I believe everyone should have equal treatment under the law. From the other end of the spectrum, I think people need to accept that healthcare will always be rationed because resources are not unlimited. The question is who will be the gatekeeper: insurance companies, Medicare, physicians, etc.

Define affordable healthcare.
Save a life. Adopt a Greyhound.

Baruch

#1098
Quote from: Shiranu on April 13, 2020, 05:05:14 AM
Using the Chinese numbers back in February, I predicted it would be 3.1 million with a 2.13% fatality rate over 6 months, with a note that I thought there numbers were lower than reality.

At the moment global totals are currently sitting at 1.85 million and a 6.2% fatality rate over 4 1/2 months.

I'm kinda depressed at how spot on I seem to have gotten the numbers, though the fatality is off (thanks to China lying about the numbers). But it is morbidly interesting to see how mathematical a virus can be.


------------

It's interesting to go back and read the beginning of this thread vs now. I actually think it's important, because it showcases just how destructive the media losing it's trustworthiness is. If the mainstream news wasn't now just editorials instead of unbiased journalism I really believe people would have taken this seriously much earlier and taken many more steps to protect themselves and their populations.

Unfortunately I doubt the United States would have been one of those countries either way.

The infection stats are useless, because testing isn't universal.  The death stats are marginal ... over counting in the West (for insurance and political reasons) and undercounting in authoritarian countries like China.  I sort of trust the death stats in my own state, because our Governor isn't a Communist ;-)

You have to do the following ... compare seasonal death stats (are those reliable?) for prior years, after we are done with 2020.  That shows the excess deaths.  Part of which is due to Covid.  That is how the actual death stats were estimated for WW II, after the war ended (the civilian deaths were much greater than the military deaths).  So do that statistics a year from now (but will always be marred with inaccuracies).  A lot of the deaths in any year are due to lung disease caused by smoking and vaping, and pneumonia from other causes than Covid.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

#1099
Quote from: GSOgymrat on April 12, 2020, 10:23:16 PM
When discussing healthcare with someone my first question is whether they agree that everyone should have access to affordable healthcare. If they disagree, we are not going to get anywhere. I can discuss the advantages and disadvantages of different healthcare systems but I believe everyone should have access to healthcare, just as I believe everyone should have equal treatment under the law. From the other end of the spectrum, I think people need to accept that healthcare will always be rationed because resources are not unlimited. The question is who will be the gatekeeper: insurance companies, Medicare, physicians, etc.

I have a right to not have to work for a living (Marx).  I have a right to a beautiful young wife (INCEL).  I have a right to abort my child any time during pregnancy or even after birth (Feminist).  I have rights, how dare you! (Greta).

You have a right to pay taxes, and die.  You don't have any other rights.  And taxes and death will usually be determined by circumstances beyond your control.  Entitlements only applied to people with titles, like the Queen.

And as I said before, health care insurance could be nationalized much better than ACA.  But I don't expect it to happen.  And you have to choose some from column A and some from column B, you can't choose all of it, or you won't get fortune cookie!  Hypochondria is a threat to any medical care system.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

Quote from: Hydra009 on April 13, 2020, 12:45:26 AM
Anyone who says no to the first question is an idiot of the highest order, displaying not only a startling lack of empathy but also a fundamental ignorance of how interconnected humanity is.  Someone else not getting the healthcare they need doesn't affect just that person, it ripples out to other people.

It's like living in a city of wood and declaring that only some fires should be put out.  It takes a really crazy person to say that and an even crazier one to pretend that it's sensible.

I have empathy for crazy apes.  But only if they are in a zoo ;-)  So, go fix something yourself.  How about fixing yourself first (someone who posts here is trying to do just that).  Stop asking a politician to wipe your ass.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

Quote from: Shiranu on April 13, 2020, 12:58:06 AM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/coronavirus-cases-on-uss-roosevelt-spike-to-550/ar-BB12usOA?ocid=st

As of now, the USS Roosevelt remains deployed and according to sources aboard the ship the infected have not been given adequate access to medical care as well as having other resource-related issues. The most recent number seems to be over 600 infected.

For those who didn't catch it, the Captain of the Roosevelt was recently relieved of command after leaking the situation aboard the ship to the media. He did this after multiple attempts to inform the Pentagon that the situation was rapidly deteriorating and was ignored every time. He did what was necessary to protect the safety of his crew and was punished for it.

If there is one thing I've learned from history, it's that when a government loses the support of their military and leaves them to die it always ends amazingly well for the government with not one negative side effect.

Yep, accident waiting to happen.  What do you think happens on submarines that are submerged for 6 months at a time?  If you don't like the risks of military service (and they are real even in peacetime) then don't join up.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

#1102
Quote from: PopeyesPappy on April 13, 2020, 08:59:11 AM
Define affordable healthcare.

Affordable? ... I am a communist party member.  I get a dacha in the country.  I get a limousine to and from work.  My job consists in telling people what they must do, or what they cannot do.  I was a bully in school.

A national health insurance can work, but it isn't free.  For socialists, if it costs more than their calling a doctor on their smartphone app, then it is too hard.  Of course, capitalists don't want to pay for anything.  They don't want to pay for you and your family.  And they want crony capitalism thru the government, to pay for them and their families (taxpayers get to pay).  The problem is human beings are liars, frauds and thieves.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

"Fauci Admits US Was "Given Incorrect Information From The Start"" ... we were all lied to by the backers of the D party, China

"Robert F Kennedy Jr. Exposes Bill Gates' Vaccine Agenda In Scathing Report" ... accidents will happen.  Gates and many governments have financed vaccine research.  But virus research is dual use.  Per prior videos I attached yesterday, the virus probably got lose accidentally, while they were working on coronavirus vaccines.  Yes vaccines are completely safe (see expose on Gates' failures in Africa), and vaccine research is anything but safe.

"Calls For Central Planning Amid COVID-19 Panic Are Like The Calls For The "War Socialism" Of Old" ... the usual actors.  Tony Blair and Gordon Brown.  The Pope in Rome.  Democrats in the US.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.


Baruch

Rude British humor.  Blimey!
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

#1106
US seems over the peak ... sound of one hand clapping ...

April 8 - 14788 total US fatalities (+3917)
April 10 - 18747 total US fatalities (+3959)
April 12 - 22105 total US fatalities (+3358)

Death total now doubling every 11 days, down from doubling every 4 days.  It is possible, that some of the lockdown restrictions will lessen, in some places by May 1.  This is good for all the people not working (mostly lower wage workers).  Continue social distancing from seniors and the chronically ill (like that utopia, Sweden).

Anyone who wants a free medical care system, right away (sorry, our politicians are blocking everything, by design) ... Cuba is just a short swim away ;-)  When Fidel needed serious medical care when he was dying, he got care in Spain.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Hydra009

Quote from: GSOgymrat on April 13, 2020, 02:56:59 AM
The people who make arguments against universal healthcare tend to emphasize individual behavior rather than the outcomes of systems. The argument often goes, "Why should I have to suffer for someone else's poor choices?"
It's probably coincidental that the most in need are usually poor people and/or minorities.

GSOgymrat

Quote from: Baruch on April 13, 2020, 09:49:36 AM
I have a right to not have to work for a living (Marx).  I have a right to a beautiful young wife (INCEL).  I have a right to abort my child any time during pregnancy or even after birth (Feminist).  I have rights, how dare you! (Greta).

You have a right to pay taxes, and die.  You don't have any other rights.  And taxes and death will usually be determined by circumstances beyond your control.  Entitlements only applied to people with titles, like the Queen.

That is why I didn't use the word "right." Philosophers get triggered.

GSOgymrat

Quote from: PopeyesPappy on April 13, 2020, 08:59:11 AM
Define affordable healthcare.

A fee that is easily paid by the patient. I have no problem with partially funding a universal healthcare system with progressive fees based on the patient's income. Preventative medicine should be at no cost to everyone and there should be out-of-pocket maximums but I think fee-for-service could reduce taxes and encourage people to access care properly. For example, charging a fee if someone comes to the emergency department with a head cold rather than contacting their primary care physician or accessing telehealth would free up emergency department staff to treat actual emergencies. Universal healthcare can certainly be funded by entirely taxes but charging affordable fees can be useful. I'm open to different strategies.