Previously 'The big ol' 2020 debate', turned Baruch's personal waste bin.

Started by Mr.Obvious, January 27, 2020, 06:37:30 AM

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Baruch

Quote from: Shiranu on April 26, 2020, 12:41:00 PM
I'm still not sure if I think her or Biden were the worst possible choice. Her laughing during an interview about smoking pot while in college while also being a prosecutor who threw hundreds of people into jail for doing the same really rubbed me the wrong way.

There are much better but lesser known VP choices ... Stacey Abrams for example.  I would like to hear more about her.  Also Tulsi Gabbard ... just among the women potential VPs.  I doubt they will be chosen.  In spite of a broken Primary system (and broken for Republicans also in 2016) ... a good VP choice would help not hurt.  Not another Mr Potatoe-head.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Shiranu

Gabbard was my original choice, so I would be happy with her. Of course she would never be nominated for VP since the party despises her view on the military industrial complex and foreign intervention...

I like Abrams, but all I really know about her is her anti-voter suppression policy and working class background.
"A little science distances you from God, but a lot of science brings you nearer to Him." - Louis Pasteur

Baruch

Quote from: Shiranu on April 26, 2020, 01:23:58 PM
Gabbard was my original choice, so I would be happy with her. Of course she would never be nominated for VP since the party despises her view on the military industrial complex and foreign intervention...

I like Abrams, but all I really know about her is her anti-voter suppression policy and working class background.

Abrams has run for Georgia governor recently, so she has campaign experience.  A purely place-holder VP candidate, won't help with the practical stuff.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

"Peter Dauo, who worked for Clinton during her first presidential bid and was a prominent defender of her in the 2016 cycle, took to Twitter Saturday morning to say "Biden should withdraw."" ... shh ... don't say that until after he makes Hillary his VP running mate!
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Shiranu

#499
I know at this point it's just beating a dead horse, but certain posts recently have given me the urge to keep beating that corpse anyways.


8:50 actually is a really on point... point as well.

"A little science distances you from God, but a lot of science brings you nearer to Him." - Louis Pasteur

trdsf

Quote from: Shiranu on April 26, 2020, 09:02:53 AM
Yeah, I think I know why Trump is going to have 4 more years in office at this rate.
That's because people like you are more interested in Biden's flaws than in the Oval Orifice's.  Oh, wah, the Democratic candidate wasn't your first choice, whine whine bitch moan complain, yes, we get it.  Tough shit.  He's not mine either, you get no sympathy from me.  Unlike you, I have priorities beyond getting my first choice.

No one ever said Biden wasn't a flawed candidate.  No one ever said he was perfect.  You're the one who's obsessed on that point, not me.

Your priorities are well intended in principle, but completely fucked up in practice.
"My faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete, it is total, and I am not going to sit here and be an idle spectator to the diminution, the subversion, the destruction of the Constitution." -- Barbara Jordan

Hydra009

#501
Quote from: trdsf on April 26, 2020, 10:15:14 PMNo one ever said Biden wasn't a flawed candidate.  No one ever said he was perfect.  You're the one who's obsessed on that point, not me.
Waiit...a perfect candidate is an option?  Or did Shiranu advocate for voting for only perfect candidates?

Cause if not, you're attacking a strawman.

Baruch

Quote from: Hydra009 on April 26, 2020, 10:22:46 PM
Waiit...a perfect candidate is an option?  Or did Shiranu advocate for only voting for perfect candidates?

Cause if not, you're attacking a strawman.

If the ends justify the means (aka access to the WH by any means) then I think the aliens from Independence Day should destroy it now.  A reasonable candidate isn't demanding much.  This is all psyop  theater by the CIA/FBI .. and you are all being taken in by it.  What is shocking is that 2016-2020 is such an obviously absurd narrative, the CIA guy who wrote it should be fired.  When Hollywood laid off all those writers during the writer's strike, apparently CIA only hired the hacks.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Shiranu

#503
QuoteThat's because people like you are more interested in Biden's flaws than in the Oval Orifice's.

I've been calling out Trump's flaws for 5 years now, from just about the day he announced his bid for the presidency. I've been in more arguments with people here over Trump's horrible behaviour and started more threads about the shitty policies he has proposed or implemented than there are pages in this thread, so please... spare me that bullshit.

QuoteNo one ever said Biden wasn't a flawed candidate.  No one ever said he was perfect.

No, but anyone who dares to point out that his voting record does not indicate he will be any more progressive than your run-of-the-mill Republican, that he has a long of history of racist remarks and opposed desegregation, that he has a history of harassing women, that we just want one good reason to vote for him other than, "He isn't Trump!"... what happens?

You don't address those issues, instead you instantly resort to calling the people bringing those issues up knuckle-dragging Trump supporters. You throw a self-righteous hissy fit that we won't just bootlick the candidate nominated by a party that has bent over backwards to appease conservatives who strip worker rights, throw us into debt and deny us healthcare.

And Biden isn't a "flawed" candidate. A flawed candidate is an old man who makes stupid gafts, who rambles on without making a point, who holds some policies that aren't great but are at least tolerable.

If your idea of a "flawed, but okay" candidate is someone who has a history of sexually harassing women, who has made multiple racist remarks about African Americans and SE Asians, who opposed desegregation, who mocks progressives to their face when questioned on his policy, who says he would veto medicare for all even if it was Dems who proposed it, who takes economic advice from a man who thinks inequality is just people being treated the way they deserve and that women are inherently too stupid to do math or science... that says far more about you than it does anything else, and frankly explains why the best you can offer is, "He isn't Trump, fuckface!".

If that's what you really think the Democratic party is suppose to be, then fuck you and fuck off. You can have your stupid ass party all to yourself, and I hope you enjoy getting your ass kicked in the election when YOU allow Donald J. Trump to be reelected.


I mean shit, there is actually still a decent chance of me voting for Biden despite ALL that if I think there is a chance he can win in my state. But that doesn't mean I'm not going to call him on his b.s. when it comes up.


This is clearly going nowhere and frankly I'm getting tired of the personal attacks. If you want to continue to respond, go ahead, but all you will be met with is mocking rather than responses. You get what you give.
"A little science distances you from God, but a lot of science brings you nearer to Him." - Louis Pasteur

Baruch

News from the money-source for the DNC this year ...

"Bloomberg published a stunning piece on April 9th promoting the secession of California from the U.S., in an op-ed by Francis Wilkinson titled “Gavin Newsom Declared California a “Nation-State”, which resurrected John C. Calhoun in a neo-confederate argument favoring nullification."

Dems gotta do what they always do ... and about LBJ's N-word Plantation (aka welfare designed to destroy Black families) ...

"Here's "Polyamory": Multi-Partner Sexual-Rights Crusade On The Horizon" ... will Dems propose Mormonism as their official religion?

Extended quote from the Bernie Bros ...

"Anis Sivani 9/11/2019 Bernie Sanders Campaign"

"The upcoming third debate is a crucial moment to reset impressions. It will be the first time all the leading candidates will be on stage together, providing new opportunities for joint interaction. After this debate, significant changes in image will become more difficult to accomplish. Therefore, this debate is key to begin altering some counterproductive perceptions that have set in: 1) Warren and Sanders are indistinguishable on policy; 2) Warren is an acceptable alternative to Sanders; 3) Any Democratic nominee is good enough, because at least they’re not Trump, and at least we’ll be resetting to the Obama years. 4) Trump can be beaten easily, he’s ready to be had (since Hillary already won the last popular vote); and 5) All the Democrats are more or less on the same side, their idealism comes from the same roots, so there is no urgency for any big philosophical issues to be worked out."

Dems being counterproductive?  Never happened before ...

Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

trdsf

#505
Quote from: Shiranu on April 27, 2020, 08:15:39 AM
And Biden isn't a "flawed" candidate. A flawed candidate is an old man who makes stupid gafts, who rambles on without making a point, who holds some policies that aren't great but are at least tolerable.

If your idea of a "flawed, but okay" candidate is someone who has a history of sexually harassing women, who has made multiple racist remarks about African Americans and SE Asians, who opposed desegregation, who mocks progressives to their face when questioned on his policy, who says he would veto medicare for all even if it was Dems who proposed it, who takes economic advice from a man who thinks inequality is just people being treated the way they deserve and that women are inherently too stupid to do math or science... that says far more about you than it does anything else, and frankly explains why the best you can offer is, "He isn't Trump, fuckface!".

If that's what you really think the Democratic party is suppose to be, then fuck you and fuck off. You can have your stupid ass party all to yourself, and I hope you enjoy getting your ass kicked in the election when YOU allow Donald J. Trump to be reelected.


I mean shit, there is actually still a decent chance of me voting for Biden despite ALL that if I think there is a chance he can win in my state. But that doesn't mean I'm not going to call him on his b.s. when it comes up.


This is clearly going nowhere and frankly I'm getting tired of the personal attacks. If you want to continue to respond, go ahead, but all you will be met with is mocking rather than responses. You get what you give.
As I quite clearly admitted earlier in this very thread, the only policy reason I give a fuck about is getting rid of Trump.

If you could have been bothered to read what I had written, you would know that a) I am not particularly pleased with Biden being the nominee either, but that's the reality that we're stuck with; and b) yes, I am going to make my personal stand on the hill that four more years of Trump is an existential threat to the Republic because that's the one I have left now.  However disappointing a Biden presidency may be, it cannot conceivably be more damaging and more just plain evil than a second Trump term.

Whether or not that's enough for you, I have no control over.  I'm not going to argue that we could have chosen any number of better candidates because obviously we could have (I can think of at least four I was planning on voting for, who dropped out), but the current reality is what it is.

We get it, you're not happy.  Neither am I, especially.  But what the fuck else am I supposed to do in November, just stay home and pretend it's not worth it?  I happen to care enough about my country that 'less bad' is preferable to 'demonstrably awful', and a small step forward (or even just stopping going in the wrong direction) is preferable to a headlong dive off a cliff.  Wailing about it solves nothing.  If you can't get excited about Biden, fineâ€"he's not exciting, I admit that.

But I'm still turning out and voting this fallâ€"if by some mischance Trump is re-elected, you can't blame me.

If you can't do that, fine, do something useful and throw your energy and your anger into a progressive Congressional or Senatorial candidate, for your governor and state rep and state senator, for your mayor and councilmembers.  A progressive political infrastructure is the prerequisite for actually getting the progressive agenda enacted, and we don't have that right now.

If you want to blame someone, blame the ones who didn't (and don't) bother turning out.  And if you're going to keep preaching despair, you can only serve to raise that number.  You want to point a finger, look in a mirror.
"My faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete, it is total, and I am not going to sit here and be an idle spectator to the diminution, the subversion, the destruction of the Constitution." -- Barbara Jordan

Baruch

""This Happened": Biden Accuser's Sexual Assault Claim Corroborated By Two More Witnesses" ... so who will Hillary liquidate now, given they tried to hide her mother's testimony?

"Pelosi Pitches Universal Basic Income To Cope With Pandemic" ... the DNC could have supported Yang, back last year, but Goldman-Sachs, backer of Hillary, wouldn't have liked that.

"AG Barr Sics Federal Prosecutors On States With 'Unconstitutional' Lockdowns" ... governors decide when and if and how ... but the Feds can circumscribe that.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Shiranu

#507
This video actually criticizes leftists like Bernie and AOC using some very lose definitions and sketchy logic, but starting around 7:40 Pool absolutely sums up my issue with the American system of running things better than anyone else I have seen by explaining how a progressive tax tier would help.

All systems are destined to fail as power creeps into the hands of the few rather than the many, but what we can try to do is slow down that failure for as long as possible. Unfortunately that's not happening, and in truth we are currently going in a direction that expedites the failure of the system.

"A little science distances you from God, but a lot of science brings you nearer to Him." - Louis Pasteur

Shiranu

#508
https://medium.com/@michele.delangeavl/peace-and-pandemic-a8898219395d

QuoteLike him or loath him, Trump’s election indicates the old game and the old narratives aren’t the only option. Trump bullied his way to the table in 2016. The status quo didn’t want him to play, but he forced his hand. Supporters believed Trump was a game-changer- that he’d drain the government swamp and bring great changes to benefit Americans. He changed the players, but not the game, Trump simply added an expansion pack to the old one.

Trump is a charismatic opportunist who watched key government players for years and figured out that the rules aren’t followed by either side. Because an overwhelming number of political players cheat, Trump goes unchecked. Trump gambled no one would risk personal exposure to get in his way. So far, he’s been right. He’s winning because the establishment always wins- he wove his way into it. Trump mastered the rotten game and it angers Democrats.

...

Looking back on the past year of primary is frustrating but important for understanding how the DNC operates, the damage it does to our democracy and why Gabbard worked hard to raise awareness. It doesn’t take leaked emails to reveal Biden isn’t the best of the 29 candidates who ran in 2020.The fact that all roads brought us to Joe Biden makes sense when we understand the DNC chooses the Democratic nominee, not the voters.

As I said before, Gabbard was my first choice pick; even above Bernie.

I didn't realise until now that the concentrated DNC efforts to discredit her, to call her a "Russian asset", to change the rules so that even though she qualified she wasn't allowed to debate (and then the debates suddenly stopped talking about foreign policy, funny how that worked) wasn't just because of her anti-war stance. It was because she resigned as Vice Chair of the DNC because of the corruption within the party and it's efforts to make sure the voters didn't actually have a voice or a choice.



This was from 3 years ago, but if anything has changed... it has only changed for the worse.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFCahqSnvvY


Quote


We’re a nation of good people conditioned for war and convinced our well-being is reflected by a healthy stock market and economy. We leave out of the wellness equation our increased problems of addiction, homelessness, mass shootings, mental illness, poverty and suicide. The president told us the economy was booming and that America is great again. We weren’t convinced, but we didn’t ask too many questions. We wanted to believe. We were distracted.
"A little science distances you from God, but a lot of science brings you nearer to Him." - Louis Pasteur

Baruch

"'Infodemic': Seoul Takes Aim At CNN "Fake News" Report About Kim Jong Un's Failed Heart Surgery" ... Even Korea calls out CNN for fake news.

"Chinagate Is The New Russiagate... And Is Far More Dangerous" ... Chinagate is real, and bipartisan.  Ukrainegate was real, but only Dems (because it happened under a Dem administration).  Russiagate never happened, it was neocon BS.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.