Previously 'The big ol' 2020 debate', turned Baruch's personal waste bin.

Started by Mr.Obvious, January 27, 2020, 06:37:30 AM

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GSOgymrat

My husband was cheering for Biden when Biden told this auto worker he was full of shit. That kind of authentic response is what a lot of voters want to see.

https://youtu.be/KPig-AllQe8

GSOgymrat

20 leading economists just signed a letter arguing Medicare for All would generate massive savings for American families

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/medicare-for-all-leading-economists-sign-letter-massive-savings-cost-2020-3-1028982592

"We believe the available research supports the conclusion that a program of Medicare for All (M4A) could be considerably less expensive than the current system, reducing waste and profiteering inherent in the current system, and could be financed in a way to ensure significant financial savings for the vast majority of American households," the economists wrote in the open letter.

"Most important, Medicare for All will reduce morbidity and save tens of thousands of lives each year," the group of economists said.

The letter was provided by Business for Medicare for All, an advocacy group pressing for universal healthcare in the US.

The economists aren't coming out in favor of a specific candidate, though some have individually consulted with Democratic presidential campaigns (at least one has endorsed Sen. Bernie Sanders).

Instead, they're making the case that a government-run health insurance system would slash wasteful spending and generate massive savings for most Americans. ...

"There's been too much loose talk that Medicare for All is unaffordable," Friedman said. "What's really unaffordable is the current system. We spend about twice the average for affluent countries in the OECD on healthcare," referring to the Organization of Economic Cooperation and Development.

Friedman also noted that increased spending often leads to worse health outcomes compared to other developed nations.

Shiranu

I'm still going to get out and vote for Biden, and encourage people to do so, but realistically Trump has already won another 4 years.
"A little science distances you from God, but a lot of science brings you nearer to Him." - Louis Pasteur

Baruch

Quote from: GSOgymrat on March 11, 2020, 01:16:21 PM
My husband was cheering for Biden when Biden told this auto worker he was full of shit. That kind of authentic response is what a lot of voters want to see.

https://youtu.be/KPig-AllQe8

Not in Detroit.  The Beta males were shocked, shocked, that a potential President had used a "bad" word ;-)
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

Quote from: GSOgymrat on March 11, 2020, 02:25:56 PM
20 leading economists just signed a letter arguing Medicare for All would generate massive savings for American families

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/medicare-for-all-leading-economists-sign-letter-massive-savings-cost-2020-3-1028982592

"We believe the available research supports the conclusion that a program of Medicare for All (M4A) could be considerably less expensive than the current system, reducing waste and profiteering inherent in the current system, and could be financed in a way to ensure significant financial savings for the vast majority of American households," the economists wrote in the open letter.

"Most important, Medicare for All will reduce morbidity and save tens of thousands of lives each year," the group of economists said.

The letter was provided by Business for Medicare for All, an advocacy group pressing for universal healthcare in the US.

The economists aren't coming out in favor of a specific candidate, though some have individually consulted with Democratic presidential campaigns (at least one has endorsed Sen. Bernie Sanders).

Instead, they're making the case that a government-run health insurance system would slash wasteful spending and generate massive savings for most Americans. ...

"There's been too much loose talk that Medicare for All is unaffordable," Friedman said. "What's really unaffordable is the current system. We spend about twice the average for affluent countries in the OECD on healthcare," referring to the Organization of Economic Cooperation and Development.

Friedman also noted that increased spending often leads to worse health outcomes compared to other developed nations.

The point isn't to save American families any money.  Or ACA wouldn't have been the dumpster fire it was.  The point is to save the insurance company money, or if nationalized, all those insurance people get new jobs as government workers doing the same job as before.

Most economists are idiots ... and paid for hacks.  Only 6 of them predicted the 2008 problem, the other 99% were wrong.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Unbeliever



I expect Trump to get another term. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm not the only one who thinks that:




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JytJ8lf8aOQ
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Hydra009

#336
Quote from: GSOgymrat on March 11, 2020, 12:11:29 PMUnless there is an unexpected twist, Biden will be the nominee. Now the question is whether Bernie supporters will show up in November to support Biden or if they will stay home and allow Trump to be re-elected.
And unless there is another unexpected twist, Trump will come out victorious.  Biden's policies are...a substantial downgrade from Bernie's and imho, policy is Trump's weak spot.  Without hammering away at big policy changes and not generating much enthusiasm among our base, we're not going to get the turnout we need.  We're going into battle with our hands empty and our pants down.

Imo Biden supporters don't (yet) truly realize just what a kick in the balls Sanders' defeat is for us progressives.  The biggest grassroots progressive campaign this nation has ever seen is going down in flames and we're just as shocked and disappointed now as we were in 2016.  We are desperate for major reform.  I have close family members who lay awake at night because of student debt and distant relatives who struggle with medical costs.  This campaign isn't for Bernie, it's for them.  And the people who squashed their faint hope have the gall to smugly tell me that "this isn't a policy year".  Well, glad to hear it.  I'll be sure to carve that on their tombstones.

And it would be one thing if it was a fair fight and Biden just had the numbers, but Biden fumbled out of the lead and was predicted to lose hard on Super Tuesday, but got bailed out in an extremely coordinated and exceedingly spiteful campaign designed to deny Sanders the nomination he had earned and basically handed it to a candidate of their choice.  Well, congrats, it worked.

And here's the thing about the upcoming general election and the inevitable lesser of two evils argument:  Do not take our votes for granted.  If you want our votes, you're going to have to earn them.  And you don't earn a damn thing by not being Trump.

Progressives, who have worked tirelessly fighting for change in this country and got plenty of flak for it, are feeling a tad upset right now.  Ignored and humiliated by an establishment that doesn't listen to us  and ridicules our policy positions and then has the temerity to ask for our aid - with the implicit threat that we'll be blamed if they fail.  They don't blame themselves for not doing enough to earn our vote, they blame us for not giving it to them automatically and without hesitation - a very entitled position.  And to push the starting disposition even further towards distrust, I've read that Bloomberg might get a top post in Biden's administration, yikes!

I absolutely understand how a principled person would not want to vote against their values.  Plus, the illiberal "moderate" Dems need to understand that there are consequences for alienating the liberal Dems and there are only consequences if we stop voting how they tell us to vote.  I am empathetic to that argument.

But I am reminded of the kids in cages and our lax (and getting laxxer!) environmental protections and so I will swallow my pride and assume the position.  Like Ted Cruz phone banking for Trump.  Utterly shameful.  But if that's what I have to do to potentially help people, I'll do it.  And all you Biden people better likewise get your asses out of your seats and start knocking on doors.  Maybe if you visited more rundown houses, you'd understand us Bernie supporters a little better.

Hydra009

#337
Oh, and I forgot this gem.  I wrote Biden off a while ago because he literally told me not to vote for him:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urNHi_dR5Gk

If you tell a potential ally to screw off and he does, who can you blame but yourself?

GSOgymrat

David Pakman won't say this but one reason we have Biden instead of Bernie or a different moderate is because Biden has the majority of black support, specifically older black voters. In 2016, Hillary Clinton won the Democratic nomination with the majority of black support. In 2008, Barack Obama won the Democratic nomination with the majority of black support. In 2004, John Kerry won the Democratic nomination with the majority of black support. In 2000, Al Gore won the Democratic nomination with the majority of black support. In 1992, Bill Clinton won the Democratic nomination with the majority of black support. In fact, the last presidential candidate to earn the Democratic nomination without leading with black voters was Michael Dukakis, who lost 90% of the black vote to Jesse Jackson. Bernie, Buttigieg and others made efforts to win black voter support from Biden without success.

Yes, Trump is likely to win in November unless something extraordinary happens but I'm not giving up, even though Biden was around sixth on my list of Democratic candidates.

https://youtu.be/Iqkr9x2XxYY

Baruch

Gave up on the "least worst candidate" voting method in 2016.  I feel sorry for Biden, even if he wasn't corrupt and a Clinton shill, it is sad to see an old man embarrass himself.  Biden must be afraid of jail for him and his family in a 2nd Trump administration.  I don't think any of those indictments will happen, they are too useful as blackmail (and blackmail doesn't work if you release the Kraken).

Yes, the Black vote is important.  Hillary didn't win enough of it in 2016, or she would have won.  It wasn't just lack of campaign appearances in Wisconsin and Michigan.  Of course, being corrupt, and being sick on the campaign trail (see Biden this year) didn't help her cause.

Go Tulsi Gabbard!
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Hydra009

#340
Quote from: GSOgymrat on March 12, 2020, 01:19:14 AM
David Pakman won't say this but one reason we have Biden instead of Bernie or a different moderate is because Biden has the majority of black support, specifically older black voters. In 2016, Hillary Clinton won the Democratic nomination with the majority of black support. In 2008, Barack Obama won the Democratic nomination with the majority of black support. In 2004, John Kerry won the Democratic nomination with the majority of black support. In 2000, Al Gore won the Democratic nomination with won the Democratic nomination with the majority of black support
And how many of those went on to win the general?

It is true that Biden captured the black vote, though Sanders was gaining ground prior to Super Tuesday.



I should note that Sanders actually had a majority of younger black voters, while Biden had older black voters, so age - not race - really is the dominating factor.

And I've gotta tell ya, if we pit our base of Boomer liberals against Trump's base of Boomer conservatives, the Boomer liberals get crushed.  Why?  Because the older generations lean Republican.



To win, we absolutely need "young" voters (less than 49), latino voters, and a hefty amount of non-Democrats.  Bernie had that sort of broad grassroots support.  Biden doesn't.  If they were to combine their support (which seems unlikely without some major policy changes on Biden's part) the Dems might have a shot.  But as it's looking now, that's not going to happen and Trump's going to handedly win and then wether we fought for big changes or small changes, it won't matter because we get 4 more years of cages and corruption.

GSOgymrat

I wonder how people would react to a Biden/Sanders ticket.

I have no idea how to get young people to actually go to the polls. 44.7 million Americans have student loan debt. Among the Class of 2019, 69% of college students took out student loans, and they graduated with an average debt of $29,900, including both private and federal debt. Meanwhile, 14% of their parents took out an average of $37,200 in federal parent PLUS loans. Sanders was essentially offering to give these people tens of thousands of dollars to vote for him.



SGOS

Quote from: GSOgymrat on March 12, 2020, 12:10:27 PM
I wonder how people would react to a Biden/Sanders ticket.

I have no idea how to get young people to actually go to the polls. 44.7 million Americans have student loan debt. Among the Class of 2019, 69% of college students took out student loans, and they graduated with an average debt of $29,900, including both private and federal debt. Meanwhile, 14% of their parents took out an average of $37,200 in federal parent PLUS loans. Sanders was essentially offering to give these people tens of thousands of dollars to vote for him.
I think it might be because young voters are disenfranchised.  They may even believe in Sander's sincerity, but they recognize the system that is something forever beyond their control and a system that Sanders could never reform.  Maybe they are just expect things to be OK like it was for their parents.  And like the rest of us, perhaps they are brainwashed to accept the system as it is, because they have been told it's the best one possible. 

I didn't vote until I was 30, because I didn't think it would make a difference, and then people started telling me, "Suppose everyone felt that way, and bla bla bla."  So I started voting thinking I might be able to help.  Now I look back in my sunset years and think, "You know?  I think I may have been right back when I was under 30.  Changing the system is daunting, especially when you are still trying to figure out who you are and what you should major in."  Young people have different priorities, and back then we all thought our elders had some sort of wisdom.  After all, those were the ones who had been running society for ages.  They certainly should know what they are doing, right?

Hydra009

#343
Quote from: GSOgymrat on March 12, 2020, 12:10:27 PM
I wonder how people would react to a Biden/Sanders ticket.
Probably not super well.  The telltale sign of a good compromise - both parties are grumbling.

But I'm not holding my breath.  Biden's reportedly under pressure to pick a black and/or female running mate for reasons.  Seems kinda dumb to pick someone who hasn't been in the running - at least you know that those people are good at attracting voters.

QuoteI have no idea how to get young people to actually go to the polls.
Extend early voting, more polling places (especially near workplaces), and/or making election day a holiday.  And it goes without saying, no more voter suppression (to which the Republicans reply: "no, more voter suppression)

GSOgymrat

Quote from: Hydra009 on March 12, 2020, 01:24:17 PM
Biden's reportedly under pressure to pick a black and/or female running mate for reasons.

Michelle Obama would attract voters but she said she won't do it.