A new perspective on this thing that we know as God.

Started by od19g6, December 31, 2019, 05:13:18 PM

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Unbeliever

Many people don't understand the concept of not believing. They think that if we tentatively hold something to be true that we "believer" it to be true.
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

trdsf

There's nothing wrong with believing things, as long as said belief is not contradicted by reality, observations and/or logic -- and as long as belief isn't mistaken for knowledge.

I'm not sure that I think it's a question of 'knowing' there's no god.  I prefer to think of it as simply accepting the null hypothesis: there's no reason to even entertain the notion of a god absent evidence to do so.  I am under no obligation to continue to fail to observe a god, any more than physicists have to repeat the Michelson-Morley experiment and re-disprove æther theory before every time they want to use relativistic equations.
"My faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete, it is total, and I am not going to sit here and be an idle spectator to the diminution, the subversion, the destruction of the Constitution." -- Barbara Jordan

Mike Cl

I have grown to dislike the word 'belief'.  Why?  Because theists tend to tell me that I must believe in something.  One told me that surely I have beliefs--one would be that the sun will rise tomorrow.  I indicated that I don't 'believe' that, I think it will rise tomorrow (even tho that is simply a shorthand way of saying the earth is rotating) since it has for billions of years; if it fails to rise, then I'll change my thinking.  I prefer to use the words hypothesis, theory, guesses and not belief.  Even in the world of sports, I used to say that 'I believe the Yankees will win the pennant this year.'; now I say that I think they will.  So, I don't believe anything.  I think things are--and when they aren't, then I will change my thinking. 
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Baruch

Quote from: Unbeliever on March 07, 2020, 04:53:07 PM
No, I don't "believe" in anything, I have working hypotheses, but no "belief." That's why my username is Unbeliever.
God-Emperor Unbeliever then, not God-Emperor Trump (whatever he may believe).
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

Quote from: Mike Cl on March 07, 2020, 05:59:15 PM
that makes, two of us.  I don't 'believe' anything, either.  I do have thoughts that could be wrong, but I'm willing to change my mind then.  Working hypotheses is a great way to put it.

Once we are retired, we are non-working hypotheses ;-)  Given we need to be skeptical of Descartes.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

Quote from: Mike Cl on March 07, 2020, 08:30:49 PM
I have grown to dislike the word 'belief'.  Why?  Because theists tend to tell me that I must believe in something.  One told me that surely I have beliefs--one would be that the sun will rise tomorrow.  I indicated that I don't 'believe' that, I think it will rise tomorrow (even tho that is simply a shorthand way of saying the earth is rotating) since it has for billions of years; if it fails to rise, then I'll change my thinking.  I prefer to use the words hypothesis, theory, guesses and not belief.  Even in the world of sports, I used to say that 'I believe the Yankees will win the pennant this year.'; now I say that I think they will.  So, I don't believe anything.  I think things are--and when they aren't, then I will change my thinking.

Married people know, you will change your thinking anytime your spouse tells you to ;-)  The idea that you are an autonomous brain in a jar, isn't real either.  That is a semi-omnipresent narrator person, like Plato and his Forms.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Munch

Belief can be applied to things us atheists have, like when you work alongside people and you put your trust in others to work with you, you could call that a belief in others since theirs no guarantee each day, unlike the sun, they will operate the same way.
Of course when you put faith in others and they let you down it just leads to you having less faith in others over time.
'Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners' - George Carlin

Mike Cl

Quote from: Munch on March 08, 2020, 03:49:38 PM
Belief can be applied to things us atheists have, like when you work alongside people and you put your trust in others to work with you, you could call that a belief in others since theirs no guarantee each day, unlike the sun, they will operate the same way.
Of course when you put faith in others and they let you down it just leads to you having less faith in others over time.
Yes, Munch, one could use the words 'belief' and 'faith' in the way you describe.  It is common for married couples to say they 'believe' in each other and have 'faith' in their love.  But those are gateway words for theism.  I love and trust my wife.  I think she will work well with me and I have trust in her abilities and loyalty.  I don't need to use the words--faith and believe--to convey what I mean.  In fact, using the words 'think' and 'trust' is clearer in my eyes to describe what I really mean.  I trusted my mates and co-workers until they demonstrated they were not worthy of that trust.  Faith had nothing to do with it.  I did not trust them blindly.  I equate both belief and faith as not reasoning and simply assuming whatever one has a belief or faith in. 
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Baruch

And the semantic wars continue, because English words are hard ;-)  This is why jargon was invented, to avoid commonly used words.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Sal1981

Quote from: Unbeliever on March 07, 2020, 04:53:07 PM
No, I don't "believe" in anything, I have working hypotheses, but no "belief." That's why my username is Unbeliever.
I usually distinguish between belief and faith.

What most people mean when they say "belief in something", they actually mean faith. Faith, as I understand it, is a conviction of things not seen and which there is no evidence for. Whereas belief is merely a conviction of things we hold to be true, based on both a working hypothesis/theory and/or evidence for it. Basically, faith is lofty groundless convictions, where belief has at least some grounding.

Unbeliever

Quote from: Mike Cl on March 07, 2020, 08:30:49 PM
I have grown to dislike the word 'belief'.  Why?  Because theists tend to tell me that I must believe in something.  One told me that surely I have beliefs--one would be that the sun will rise tomorrow.  I indicated that I don't 'believe' that, I think it will rise tomorrow (even tho that is simply a shorthand way of saying the earth is rotating) since it has for billions of years; if it fails to rise, then I'll change my thinking.  I prefer to use the words hypothesis, theory, guesses and not belief.  Even in the world of sports, I used to say that 'I believe the Yankees will win the pennant this year.'; now I say that I think they will.  So, I don't believe anything.  I think things are--and when they aren't, then I will change my thinking. 


I bet when you try explaining that to them they still don't get it.  LOL

I don't even try explaining it to religious types any more, except here when they show up to become chew toys for a little while. I hardly ever run across them, anyway, out here in meat space, so I seldom have to worry about it.
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Unbeliever

Quote from: Baruch on March 08, 2020, 05:16:30 PM
And the semantic wars continue, because English words are hard ;-)  This is why jargon was invented, to avoid commonly used words.


I've heard that the English language is the hardest to learn as a second language. Even harder than Chinese. Hard to see how it could be harder than, say, Welsh, or Basque, but what do I  know?
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Gregory

"I have a dream."
The dream is ours to share
of somewhere better.

Martin Luther King had faith in his dream: this I believe.

Baruch

#299
Quote from: Unbeliever on March 08, 2020, 06:45:19 PM

I've heard that the English language is the hardest to learn as a second language. Even harder than Chinese. Hard to see how it could be harder than, say, Welsh, or Basque, but what do I  know?

Semantics is hard in any language, it is universal.  Chinese is mostly homonyms.  The meaning of a spoken word relies much more on context than English.

This is why philosophers/psychologists use technical words, to avoid "meaning" arguments.  In a technical discussion with say, electrical engineers, one knows what "volt" means, one doesn't have to consult Plato.

If you believe in nothing else, I urge you to believe in your self ..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ipTOrO0vF0
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.