A new perspective on this thing that we know as God.

[Baruch]

This thread really should be in the general religious discussion section. But oh well. Right away, you've already made a claim you can't support. Just because something isn't physical doesn't mean you can't study it. There are lots of things we can't perceive through our senses that we can study, via the affects they have on the world. God being non-physical doesn't excuse the fact that there is no way to objectively verify that he even exists.

Correct.  Theism is non-objective.  If we admit the physical includes EM field etc.  Objective means, you can have two or more disinterested researchers, examine something quantitatively (the weight of my cat) and they come up with more or less the same answer.  By labeling (right or wrong) something as non-physical, it is more or less subjective, not objective ... a mere idea.  In fundamentalist epistemology only the objective can be known.  Therefore theism is about things that can't be known.  And that leads to ignoring most of psychology and philosophy.  Mathematicians argue if math is real or not, and we leave them to it.

[Unbeliever]

So I  guess I'll start.

So what if I told you that we will never know God completely.

We can only know God through His names and attributes.

What is this "God" thing you're talking about? Can you define it, so we all know what we're discussing?

[Mr.Obvious]

Sure, take your time.

Okay, it might work with telepathy.
Or do you believe some humans have telepathy?

[od19g6]

Chimpanzees have shown to be able to learn tool use.

Yes, but chimpanzees can't invent anything near like the human being can. They can only use "tools" from directly around them like sticks etc.

Probably not the same level as engineers, but beavers can build dams, that has to count for something. As well as ant colonies, bee hives & wasp hives. Not to mention all the various burrows and nests animals are able to pull off.

Once again that's my point the human being has the capability to create much more complex and grander things than what the mere animal can.

Technology is just tool use.

Yes, and guess what. Only can the human being create that tool.

Ants do, some species of ants build massive structures.

Not nearly as grand and technologically advanced as humans can build.

Yes, ants again.

The human's are much superior.

Probably, nothing says they cannot.

Now come on, you know that's not true.

Probably not.

Exactly.

You're basically just co-opting something humans do, without divine intervention, and calling it "manifesting" 'god'. We do this regardless.

Human beings can only do these things because we are the highest creatures on earth. We have a reality that no other creature on earth has and that is a divine reality. And that divine / spiritual reality are manifested in the things we do.

[Unbeliever]

None of that means anything at all. Your God does not exist, you've been lied to by those you trusted to tell you the truth.

[od19g6]

This thread really should be in the general religious discussion section. But oh well. Right away, you've already made a claim you can't support. Just because something isn't physical doesn't mean you can't study it. There are lots of things we can't perceive through our senses that we can study, via the affects they have on the world. God being non-physical doesn't excuse the fact that there is no way to objectively verify that he even exists.

It can't be supported physically because God is not even apart of the physical universe, God is beyond the physical universe. We can only verify that God exists through His names and attributes, which is manifested in the physical universe.

[od19g6]

What is this "God" thing you're talking about? Can you define it, so we all know what we're discussing?

It's the God that we commonly know as created the universe including the human being.

[od19g6]

Okay, it might work with telepathy.
Or do you believe some humans have telepathy?

Just to be clear, what is telepathy?

[od19g6]

None of that means anything at all. Your God does not exist, you've been lied to by those you trusted to tell you the truth.

ok.

[Unbeliever]

It's the God that we commonly know as created the universe including the human being.

We don't know any such thing. We have no reason at all to believe that any God created the universe.

Besides, telling me what you believe God has done is not defining God, not telling me what it is.

[Hydra009]

It can't be supported physically because God is not even apart of the physical universe, God is beyond the physical universe.

Well that just sounds like nonexistence with extra steps.

[Hydra009]

It's the God that we commonly know as created the universe including the human being.

Don't be coy.  Which god do you suggest is "commonly known"?  Zeus?  Jupiter?  Odin?  Atum?  Enlil?  Brahma?  Quetzalcoatl?

[od19g6]

We don't know any such thing. We have no reason at all to believe that any God created the universe.

Besides, telling me what you believe God has done is not defining God, not telling me what it is.

The thing is we really can't know what God fully is. Like I keep saying God is beyond the physical universe. The only that we can know anything about God is through His qualities, names and attributes, and the human being is the best animal to manifest those to the physical world.

[od19g6]

Well that just sounds like nonexistence with extra steps.

God exists, and the human being is the best proof.

[od19g6]

Don't be coy.  Which god do you suggest is "commonly known"?  Zeus?  Jupiter?  Odin?  Atum?  Enlil?  Brahma?  Quetzalcoatl?

Well just like I said the one true God that created the universe and all that's in it. He's also the originator of all the religions.