Is Lourdes impossible to refute ?

[Syrimoon]

Miracle healing, good.  Shroud of Turin, bad.  But I can equally argue that the Shroud of Turin has never been adequately debunked, while miracle healing was exposed as a fraud back in the 1950s.  Many believers still hold the Shroud in deep respect.  And everyone knows forensic science is bunk.

These points may be arguable, but I have one thing in my favor that seals the deal.  I want to believe in the Shroud.

I definately don't believe in like, laying of hands at tent revivals and such, I know all the calendar goes on there and I can find plenty about it online. What I can't find is how to explain a 4 year old girl who was known to be dead suddenly able to hear as soon as her parents held a saints medal to it, a case canonized as authentic by the church with hundreds of pages from medical doctors, not all of whom are Catholic. Spontaneous healing sure but right at that moment??

[SGOS]

I definately don't believe in like, laying of hands at tent revivals and such,

Lourdes is packaged in a somewhat less vulgar way, but it's still the same thing, appealing to the same kind of people.  And the Church loves it, because they need miracles to preserve the doctrine.  It would be a shame if they actually found something in the water that healed every sort of condition.  Did you know the holy water in that little fountain in the church foyer comes out of a tap?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Why assume straight out the bat that god is somehow involved?

Because that's what he's trying to prove, that HIS god exists.

[Unbeliever]

Miracle healing, good.  Shroud of Turin, bad.  But I can equally argue that the Shroud of Turin has never been adequately debunked, while miracle healing was exposed as a fraud back in the 1950s.  Many believers still hold the Shroud in deep respect.  And everyone knows forensic science is bunk.

These points may be arguable, but I have one thing in my favor that seals the deal.  I want to believe in the Shroud.

There's a very readable book called The Second Messiah: Templars, The Turin Shroud, and the Great Secret of Freemasonry by Christopher Knight. It's all about the final days of the Templars and what happened to Jacques de Molay. According to the author, that's who was wrapped in the shroud, not Jesus. He shows, at the end of the book, how the image happened, but I'm not enough of  scientist to know how good the explanation was.

[SGOS]

Just in case you missed the sarcasm, I never thought the original Shroud was wrapped around Jesus.  I remember looking at the picture, and thinking that sure looks like a person but beyond that, I never understood why they claimed it was Jesus.  What a silly claim.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

The shroud "image" bears no relation to what it would look like if actually wrapped around some dead jew's head.

[Hydra009]

What I can't find is how to explain a 4 year old girl who was known to be dead suddenly able to hear as soon as her parents held a saints medal to it, a case canonized as authentic by the church with hundreds of pages from medical doctors, not all of whom are Catholic. Spontaneous healing sure but right at that moment??

Post hoc attribution, not a super compelling argument right there.  And yes, if it's possible for someone to heal up from something naturally, that can happen at any time, even when someone's shouting alakazam in their face.

Ever hear of an amputee who went to Lourdes and came back tap dancing?  Me neither.

[Mr.Obvious]

Belief in miracles is odd, including healing miracles. Supposedly god plans for bad stuff to happen to people, and then, for about 0.01% of those who want it to be undone, he obliges, the rest are still fucked. Weird grand plan, if you ask me. But then hey, I'm not all-knowing.
What I do know, however, is that believing in healing miracles doesn't help people. So I don't like people feeding into this myth. 'but it gives hope' some fools argue. No, it shifts focus from reality, which, harsh as it might be, must be dealt with.

[SGOS]

Bullshit, you're a believer and a concern troll. You couldn't be more obvious.

I've been trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, but I think you are right.  I don't believe he's genuine.

[Syrimoon]

I've been trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, but I think you are right.  I don't believe he's genuine.

I understand how it doesnt seem legit but I wish you could be here in my head for a few minutes to understand I'm not trying to convert anyone but myself.

The last fucking thing. I'm this world. That I want right now. Is to be in this position where i feel like the foubdarion of my world is giving out from under me. I dont want this,  at all, period, but I don't know how to tell my brain to shut up

[SGOS]

You seem to be here looking for guidance, but you keep justifying miracle healing to people who expect evidence, while you remain blind to the fallacies you use to protect the fantasy.  It seems more like you want us to believe it.  You have a legal right to believe anything you want.  If you can't stop believing in stupid stuff, just go ahead and believe it without the guilt.  So you get it wrong; What are you out?  What are we out?  I for one don't care.  I'm not your mentor.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I understand how it doesnt seem legit but I wish you could be here in my head for a few minutes to understand I'm not trying to convert anyone but myself.

The last fucking thing. I'm this world. That I want right now. Is to be in this position where i feel like the foubdarion of my world is giving out from under me. I dont want this,  at all, period, but I don't know how to tell my brain to shut up

Well, you're screwed if you don't man up.

[Unbeliever]

I didn't lose my faith all at once, it took a lot of study and thought to finally jettison my dependence on mythology, and to realize that it was just that - mythology. Now I know that Jesus almost certainly never existed, and God is just a figment of imagination. I have no fear of hell, or God's wrath, so now all I have to fear are the followers of an archaic story that was made up to control people.

[Baruch]

I didn't lose my faith all at once, it took a lot of study and thought to finally jettison my dependence on mythology, and to realize that it was just that - mythology. Now I know that Jesus almost certainly never existed, and God is just a figment of imagination. I have no fear of hell, or God's wrath, so now all I have to fear are the followers of an archaic story that was made up to control people.

Just like every ex-smoker ;-)  Since I wasn't raised in religion, I didn't have to reject it as part of separating my identity from my parents.  But I can vicariously have sympathy for those who do.

[aitm]

O-boy he is back. Just another angle to get to after death and NDE and blah the fuck blah.....play with it for awhile. I’ll take the trash out when I get back to my “big board”.