Author Topic: Moral Implications of Belief Without Evidence  (Read 1896 times)

Offline SGOS

Moral Implications of Belief Without Evidence
« on: November 22, 2019, 08:36:24 AM »
Seldom does an article so well reflect the core of my personal philosophy, and probably most others in this forum.  All the while I was reading this, I kept saying to myself, "Holy shit, this guy nails it!"  That beliefs without evidence have deep moral consequences for society, is probably indisputable by most everyone including the Baptist down the road.  I cannot agree more, but the article caused me to think one level deeper, as I asked myself, "If this is true, and such a widely held philosophy exists, then why is the world still such a shit hole?"

While I'm in total agreement with this philosophy, what is not covered in the article is the problem of how we process evidence.  Is it enough to say, "I heard it on the internet,", "I saw a Utube video about it,", "I believe it in my heart,", or, "There must be a god, because who else could create such beauty in Nature," sufficient processing?

Humans are not predisposed to processing evidence logically.  It's much easier and therefore more satisfying to process evidence in a lazy slap hazard way, which can provide us with what we want, rather than help us understand what is, and that this sort of processing is what most people consider logical.  While I write this, I'm starting to feel disappointed because such an inspiring philosophy, as wonderful as it is, barely scratches the surface of the issue.

This is a rather short read for such a profound thought, and maybe that's why I started reading with fire and finished feeling let down.  I'm curious if others have the same reaction.

https://getpocket.com/explore/item/believing-without-evidence-is-always-morally-wrong?utm_source=pocket-newtab
« Last Edit: November 22, 2019, 08:38:46 AM by SGOS »

Offline Hydra009

Re: Moral Implications of Belief Without Evidence
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2019, 09:01:18 AM »
That beliefs without evidence have deep moral consequences for society, is probably indisputable by most everyone including the Baptist down the road.
Exactly.  Which is why I HATE the "I'm entitled to my beliefs" argument, as if the fundamental nature of reality were like our favorite color, a subjective matter decided on one's personal whim.  It doesn't work that way, Jan.  When we're not on the same page about the facts on the ground, it screws up everything else, from science to education to politics.  We can't even meaningfully have a dialogue about this stuff, because you can't change your mind about dogma.  Religion poisons everything.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2019, 09:23:47 AM by Hydra009 »

Offline Baruch

Re: Moral Implications of Belief Without Evidence
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2019, 12:11:29 PM »
Evidence for religion, not gods, are billions of people over thousands of years.  Atheists are the minority position.  But I wouldn't turn this around and claim that if you don't agree with the majority of humanity, you are immoral.

So why say ... if you think like X you are immoral?  Thought crime?  You liberals want to self justify.  If all conservatives and theists are "baby Hitler", you are justified in setting up your Stalinist/Chinese gulags.

Why "entitled to my beliefs"?  Because if you bring your corrupt police (commissars) to my front porch, you get the same treatment as MS13.  Would it have been better if the Stalin/Trotsky Germans had their way in 1933?
« Last Edit: November 22, 2019, 12:15:38 PM by Baruch »
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Offline LoriPinkAngel

Re: Moral Implications of Belief Without Evidence
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2019, 01:13:23 PM »
I found this part very thought provoking:

Quote
Today, we truly have a global reservoir of belief into which all of our commitments are being painstakingly added: it’s called Big Data.


So many people are venting and arguing about their beliefs on social media.  There is so much hostility and toxicity, and very little real communication.

Re: Moral Implications of Belief Without Evidence
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2019, 01:17:38 PM »
"Some people seem to think thought goes into this."
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Re: Moral Implications of Belief Without Evidence
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2019, 01:29:33 PM »
Quote
If there was ever a time when critical thinking was a moral imperative, and credulity a calamitous sin, it is now.


But critical thinking skills are lacking in too many people, maybe because the word "critical" makes them think it's just about complaining about stuff. It sounds negative, and people so want to embrace only the positive. It's much easier just to believe what we like rather than to work to find out the truth of things. Among the first things children should be taught is how to think. Most are only taught what to think. And most of what they're taught to think is totally bogus crap.
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Offline Baruch

Re: Moral Implications of Belief Without Evidence
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2019, 04:03:51 PM »
"Some people seem to think thought goes into this."

If you are all brain, and no heart, I still see a problem.  People only rationalize their emotional positions anyway.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Offline Gregory

Re: Moral Implications of Belief Without Evidence
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2020, 03:47:47 AM »
I believe in fairies...for children.

Re: Moral Implications of Belief Without Evidence
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2020, 09:05:23 AM »
I believe in fairies...for children.
If you were Conan Doyle, you'd believe in fairies for everybody.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline aitm

Re: Moral Implications of Belief Without Evidence
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2020, 10:21:31 AM »
Good read. Unfortunately, like anything that suggests an alternate view to our chosen one, those who don’t need to read it will, while those who do won’t.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Offline Sal1981

Re: Moral Implications of Belief Without Evidence
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2020, 12:33:15 PM »
I don't know if all beliefs shape our actions, I tend to think that people do double-think when it comes to beliefs, i.e. the beliefs they can't verify is compartmentalized, given way to tried and tested beliefs about reality. This is best illustrated with how people pray for an illness to go away, yet go to a hospital for treatment.
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool" --- Richard P. Feynman

Offline aitm

Re: Moral Implications of Belief Without Evidence
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2020, 12:36:16 PM »
People tend to believe what they “understand” and agrees with their emotions. People reject complicated ideas not because they are true or not, but because they won’t admit they can’t understand it. Reason 1, why philosophy died amongst the masses.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Offline Gregory

Re: Moral Implications of Belief Without Evidence
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2020, 10:20:40 PM »
Even when the religious have evidence, it's bullshit.

Offline Baruch

Re: Moral Implications of Belief Without Evidence
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2020, 12:26:42 AM »
Even when the religious have evidence, it's bullshit.

Here come the judge, here come the judge - Laugh-In 1969
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Re: Moral Implications of Belief Without Evidence
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2020, 01:29:19 PM »
Order in the court - here comes the tennis pro!
« Last Edit: March 11, 2020, 07:10:21 PM by Unbeliever »
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman