This is an article comparing fascism and communism

Started by Hijiri Byakuren, August 30, 2019, 04:03:15 PM

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Hijiri Byakuren

https://www.diffen.com/difference/Communism_vs_Fascism

Any of you who vote in your country of residence should give this a read. It opens up with a comparison of communist and fascist theory, and then moves on to discussing their actual history and practice.

I post this because I think a lot of people these days don't recognize fascism when they see it, and conversely see communism where none exists. Plus, in this politically-charged climate we now live in, I don't think it hurts to have a refresher on what real extremism looks like, thus allowing us to approach lesser so-called extremists more calmly.
Speak when you have something to say, not when you have to say something.

Sargon The Grape - My Youtube Channel

Baruch

Sorry, political theory, of any kind, is propaganda territory.  Semantic war.  So no, I don't recognize, except to abuse it myself, anyone's buzz words.  And I assume all others are doing likewise.  Like trying to define racism (a term invented by Leon Trotsky).

Basically the point is .. if fascism is bad, that is what your opponents are doing.  Same thing for communism.  What is meaningful are the specifics.  Open borders or closed borders or controlled borders for example.  Doesn't really how those are grouped under smoke and mirror labels.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Sal1981

A lot of spelling and grammar errors in that article. And a dead YT link.

Mike Cl

I like the site (and have marked it) as a reference.  At the very least, it is a great place to start.  Thanks for the reference.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Cavebear

I don't personally consider that there is a lot of difference between Nazis and Communists.  Both meet the definition of extreme socialism regarding national control over means of production.  If Hitler had somehow come to be in control of Russia and Stalin had been in control of Germany, would there have been much difference? 
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

Quote from: Cavebear on August 31, 2019, 01:14:58 AM
I don't personally consider that there is a lot of difference between Nazis and Communists.  Both meet the definition of extreme socialism regarding national control over means of production.  If Hitler had somehow come to be in control of Russia and Stalin had been in control of Germany, would there have been much difference?

Agreed.  This is echoes from early 20th century on virtue signaling between Hitler and Stalin.  I am not Hitler - Stalin.  I am not Stalin - Hitler.  Both were evil dictators who killed millions.  Yes, for some people, Krupp control of the economy is better than Commissar control of the economy.  But not by much.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Mike Cl

Quote from: Cavebear on August 31, 2019, 01:14:58 AM
I don't personally consider that there is a lot of difference between Nazis and Communists.  Both meet the definition of extreme socialism regarding national control over means of production.  If Hitler had somehow come to be in control of Russia and Stalin had been in control of Germany, would there have been much difference?
I do see a difference.  And a sharp one when each is defined.  Where the blurring comes in is with the sole leaders (dictator) who takes control.  Stalin and Hitler both put their own stamp upon their dictatorships; neither cared what they were labeled as long as they were obeyed.  Each leader cared little for what their ruling style was called so they used what worked for them at any one time.  Both were evil men who did evil things.

I have not seen a 'perfect' communist state, fascist state, socialist state, democratic state or any other singular ideological state.  They are all blends of different thoughts and ideals run through the blender of 'making it work'.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Cavebear

Quote from: Mike Cl on August 31, 2019, 10:33:00 AM
I do see a difference.  And a sharp one when each is defined.  Where the blurring comes in is with the sole leaders (dictator) who takes control.  Stalin and Hitler both put their own stamp upon their dictatorships; neither cared what they were labeled as long as they were obeyed.  Each leader cared little for what their ruling style was called so they used what worked for them at any one time.  Both were evil men who did evil things.

I have not seen a 'perfect' communist state, fascist state, socialist state, democratic state or any other singular ideological state.  They are all blends of different thoughts and ideals run through the blender of 'making it work'.

You said "I do see a difference".  What difference?
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

It is debatable if any dictator ever believes in any ideology at all.  Since they all support "The ends justify the means".
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Sal1981

Quote from: Baruch on August 31, 2019, 04:23:58 PM
It is debatable if any dictator ever believes in any ideology at all.  Since they all support "The ends justify the means".
MF'ing this.

Dictators don't care about ideology, they care about power. In a perverted sense, it's what ideological landscape they're in that they can pragmatically take advantage of, that matters to them to attain power. Hitler was democratically elected, while Lenin took advantage of an ideological landscape of "workers unite" fanfare.

Mike Cl

Quote from: Cavebear on August 31, 2019, 11:00:00 AM
You said "I do see a difference".  What difference?
Read the two columns of the site.  Communism is all for one, one for all.  Fascism is control from the top down, corporation-ism is at the fore, with the dictator controlling all corps. 

The blurring happens when a 'leader' gathers enough power to become a dictator and his will then become 'law' and ideology goes out the window. 
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Cavebear

Quote from: Baruch on August 31, 2019, 04:23:58 PM
It is debatable if any dictator ever believes in any ideology at all.  Since they all support "The ends justify the means".

Have you read 'Foundation And Empire'?  An Empire diplomat said he believed in "so little that it was easy to believe in nothing" or something like that.  When the Foundation sentacists evaluated all his statements over 3 days, he actually said "nothing". Those are the kind of people I consider useless.  The purpose of communication is to transmit information.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

#12
Quote from: Cavebear on August 31, 2019, 06:28:49 PM
Have you read 'Foundation And Empire'?  An Empire diplomat said he believed in "so little that it was easy to believe in nothing" or something like that.  When the Foundation sentacists evaluated all his statements over 3 days, he actually said "nothing". Those are the kind of people I consider useless.  The purpose of communication is to transmit information.

No, the purpose of language is to conquer the galaxy for the Mule.

Communism is not the Four Musketeers.  Bollocks.  They are monarchists.

Communism is abolition of private property, a single political party that is all powerful, and often a cult of personality at the top.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

#13
“A Socialist is one who serves the common good without giving up his individuality or personality or the product of his personal efficiency.  Our adopted term ‘Socialist’ has nothing to do with Marxian Socialism.  Marxism is anti-property; true socialism is not.  Marxism places no value on the individual, or individual effort, or efficiency; true Socialism values the individual and encourages him in individual efficiency, at the same time holding that his interests as an individual must be in consonance with those of the community.  All great inventions, discoveries, achievements were first the product of an individual brain.  It is charged against me that I am against property, that I am an atheist.  Both charges are false.” - Adolf Hitler Dec 28.1938


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Doctrine_of_Fascism or Gentile + Mussolini

No True Fascism?

The Trotsky view of fascism ...

https://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1934/xx/hitler.htm
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

drunkenshoe

May be we need contemporary articles comparing communism and fascism in the very era they were invented.

"science is not about building a body of known 'facts'. ıt is a method for asking awkward questions and subjecting them to a reality-check, thus avoiding the human tendency to believe whatever makes us feel good." - tp