Author Topic: This is an article comparing fascism and communism  (Read 664 times)

Offline Hijiri Byakuren

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This is an article comparing fascism and communism
« on: August 30, 2019, 04:03:15 PM »
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Any of you who vote in your country of residence should give this a read. It opens up with a comparison of communist and fascist theory, and then moves on to discussing their actual history and practice.

I post this because I think a lot of people these days don't recognize fascism when they see it, and conversely see communism where none exists. Plus, in this politically-charged climate we now live in, I don't think it hurts to have a refresher on what real extremism looks like, thus allowing us to approach lesser so-called extremists more calmly.
"Existence is beautiful, if you let it be. Life is not a question. There does not need to be an answer."
- No Man's Sky

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Offline Baruch

Re: This is an article comparing fascism and communism
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2019, 04:10:13 PM »
Sorry, political theory, of any kind, is propaganda territory.  Semantic war.  So no, I don't recognize, except to abuse it myself, anyone's buzz words.  And I assume all others are doing likewise.  Like trying to define racism (a term invented by Leon Trotsky).

Basically the point is .. if fascism is bad, that is what your opponents are doing.  Same thing for communism.  What is meaningful are the specifics.  Open borders or closed borders or controlled borders for example.  Doesn't really how those are grouped under smoke and mirror labels.
Zampa xiquihto.  Amo nimitzcuamachilia.
Say it again.  I don't understand you.

Offline Sal1981

Re: This is an article comparing fascism and communism
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2019, 05:23:47 PM »
A lot of spelling and grammar errors in that article. And a dead YT link.
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool" --- Richard P. Feynman

Re: This is an article comparing fascism and communism
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2019, 07:47:25 PM »
I like the site (and have marked it) as a reference.  At the very least, it is a great place to start.  Thanks for the reference.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Cavebear

Re: This is an article comparing fascism and communism
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2019, 01:14:58 AM »
I don't personally consider that there is a lot of difference between Nazis and Communists.  Both meet the definition of extreme socialism regarding national control over means of production.  If Hitler had somehow come to be in control of Russia and Stalin had been in control of Germany, would there have been much difference? 
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: This is an article comparing fascism and communism
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2019, 10:06:47 AM »
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I don't personally consider that there is a lot of difference between Nazis and Communists.  Both meet the definition of extreme socialism regarding national control over means of production.  If Hitler had somehow come to be in control of Russia and Stalin had been in control of Germany, would there have been much difference?

Agreed.  This is echoes from early 20th century on virtue signaling between Hitler and Stalin.  I am not Hitler - Stalin.  I am not Stalin - Hitler.  Both were evil dictators who killed millions.  Yes, for some people, Krupp control of the economy is better than Commissar control of the economy.  But not by much.
Zampa xiquihto.  Amo nimitzcuamachilia.
Say it again.  I don't understand you.

Re: This is an article comparing fascism and communism
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2019, 10:33:00 AM »
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I don't personally consider that there is a lot of difference between Nazis and Communists.  Both meet the definition of extreme socialism regarding national control over means of production.  If Hitler had somehow come to be in control of Russia and Stalin had been in control of Germany, would there have been much difference?
I do see a difference.  And a sharp one when each is defined.  Where the blurring comes in is with the sole leaders (dictator) who takes control.  Stalin and Hitler both put their own stamp upon their dictatorships; neither cared what they were labeled as long as they were obeyed.  Each leader cared little for what their ruling style was called so they used what worked for them at any one time.  Both were evil men who did evil things.

I have not seen a 'perfect' communist state, fascist state, socialist state, democratic state or any other singular ideological state.  They are all blends of different thoughts and ideals run through the blender of 'making it work'.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Cavebear

Re: This is an article comparing fascism and communism
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2019, 11:00:00 AM »
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I do see a difference.  And a sharp one when each is defined.  Where the blurring comes in is with the sole leaders (dictator) who takes control.  Stalin and Hitler both put their own stamp upon their dictatorships; neither cared what they were labeled as long as they were obeyed.  Each leader cared little for what their ruling style was called so they used what worked for them at any one time.  Both were evil men who did evil things.

I have not seen a 'perfect' communist state, fascist state, socialist state, democratic state or any other singular ideological state.  They are all blends of different thoughts and ideals run through the blender of 'making it work'.

You said "I do see a difference".  What difference?
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: This is an article comparing fascism and communism
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2019, 04:23:58 PM »
It is debatable if any dictator ever believes in any ideology at all.  Since they all support "The ends justify the means".
Zampa xiquihto.  Amo nimitzcuamachilia.
Say it again.  I don't understand you.

Offline Sal1981

Re: This is an article comparing fascism and communism
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2019, 05:00:56 PM »
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It is debatable if any dictator ever believes in any ideology at all.  Since they all support "The ends justify the means".
MF'ing this.

Dictators don't care about ideology, they care about power. In a perverted sense, it's what ideological landscape they're in that they can pragmatically take advantage of, that matters to them to attain power. Hitler was democratically elected, while Lenin took advantage of an ideological landscape of "workers unite" fanfare.
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool" --- Richard P. Feynman

Re: This is an article comparing fascism and communism
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2019, 05:46:13 PM »
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You said "I do see a difference".  What difference?
Read the two columns of the site.  Communism is all for one, one for all.  Fascism is control from the top down, corporation-ism is at the fore, with the dictator controlling all corps. 

The blurring happens when a 'leader' gathers enough power to become a dictator and his will then become 'law' and ideology goes out the window. 
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Cavebear

Re: This is an article comparing fascism and communism
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2019, 06:28:49 PM »
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It is debatable if any dictator ever believes in any ideology at all.  Since they all support "The ends justify the means".

Have you read 'Foundation And Empire'?  An Empire diplomat said he believed in "so little that it was easy to believe in nothing" or something like that.  When the Foundation sentacists evaluated all his statements over 3 days, he actually said "nothing". Those are the kind of people I consider useless.  The purpose of communication is to transmit information.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: This is an article comparing fascism and communism
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2019, 08:05:35 AM »
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Have you read 'Foundation And Empire'?  An Empire diplomat said he believed in "so little that it was easy to believe in nothing" or something like that.  When the Foundation sentacists evaluated all his statements over 3 days, he actually said "nothing". Those are the kind of people I consider useless.  The purpose of communication is to transmit information.

No, the purpose of language is to conquer the galaxy for the Mule.

Communism is not the Four Musketeers.  Bollocks.  They are monarchists.

Communism is abolition of private property, a single political party that is all powerful, and often a cult of personality at the top.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2019, 08:09:01 AM by Baruch »
Zampa xiquihto.  Amo nimitzcuamachilia.
Say it again.  I don't understand you.

Offline Baruch

Re: This is an article comparing fascism and communism
« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2019, 02:22:14 PM »
“A Socialist is one who serves the common good without giving up his individuality or personality or the product of his personal efficiency.  Our adopted term ‘Socialist’ has nothing to do with Marxian Socialism.  Marxism is anti-property; true socialism is not.  Marxism places no value on the individual, or individual effort, or efficiency; true Socialism values the individual and encourages him in individual efficiency, at the same time holding that his interests as an individual must be in consonance with those of the community.  All great inventions, discoveries, achievements were first the product of an individual brain.  It is charged against me that I am against property, that I am an atheist.  Both charges are false.” - Adolf Hitler Dec 28.1938


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No True Fascism?

The Trotsky view of fascism ...

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« Last Edit: September 02, 2019, 02:25:46 PM by Baruch »
Zampa xiquihto.  Amo nimitzcuamachilia.
Say it again.  I don't understand you.

Offline drunkenshoe

Re: This is an article comparing fascism and communism
« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2019, 02:45:19 PM »
May be we need contemporary articles comparing communism and fascism in the very era they were invented.

 
'the wise man does not seek enlightenment, he waits for it. so while ı was waiting, it occurred to me that seeking perplexity might be more fun.’ - lu-tze

 

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