Author Topic: Religious Thought Relics  (Read 159 times)

Offline Sal1981

Religious Thought Relics
« on: August 29, 2019, 06:20:59 PM »
Do you wish for a better world? Does that wishing make the world better?

Just wishing for something, is, like prayer, pointless and does nothing other than skew your worldview. I mean, it's like a form of mental masturbation, signifying nothing, doing nothing and only achieving pointless imagery of a something falsely fulfilled. For me, I used to wish for stuff even after becoming an atheist, took me way too long to realize the pointlessness of wishing something to be true compared to actually make something real, to take steps to actualize something.

I believe that this is a relic from my religious upbringing, a mind virus that I had, and to some extent still do. I also think this isn't just the case for an apostate like me, but it is embedded in our culture.

Another thought relic I used to have was that religion, or more precisely faith, had a say in morality and ethics. I don't need religion to know right from wrong. I know what is wrong from harm done to myself and done to others, likewise I know what is right that lessens that harm. No religion needed. I would argue that you need to presuppose your own moral "compass" before being able to accept a religiously defined set of rules, incorrectly called religiously inspired morality, to even be able to accept them in the first place.

There probably are plenty of these religious thought relics around, which we now take for granted as such, like the obsolete relic that religion has a say in the natural sciences - no one thinks that anymore. That has been cast to the wayside to the graveyard of ideas.

One last thought relic I thought about is that religion tells stories that are supposed to have values and teach moral lessons. To that I ask, what values can a religion & faith teach, that something bounded in any other fictitious work or even true events can't teach better?

We have so much art that we know to be representations, not deluding ourselves about its truth value seems to be more preferable than thinking it real.
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool" --- Richard P. Feynman

Offline Baruch

Re: Religious Thought Relics
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2019, 09:20:59 AM »
No.  The world is just fine.  Send the D party complainers to Venus, and the R party complainers to Mars.

The idealists and do-gooders are the greatest threat to human survival.  Hitler and Stalin did nothing wrong. (sarc)

Atheists and theists are both guilty of wish fullfillment.  Theists ask god and get nothing.  Atheists ask politicians and get nothing.

To your point ... there are memes inherited from the parents.  Kill all parents, children should raise themselves adult free in the woods.  Or is that Jungle Book wish fullfillment aka Rousseau (the autistic hater of civilization).

Or in the case of many secular Americans ... they are post-Christian.  Not true atheists.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2019, 09:24:25 AM by Baruch »
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Munch

Re: Religious Thought Relics
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2019, 08:51:21 PM »
I was raised by a woman who while not religious, is someone who believes in certain levels of spiritualism and even practiced things like tarot and making charms and good luck trinkets. when going though my teens and even early into my 20s I tried to practice magic from books I brought from seaside trinket shops.

Obviously all my attachment to spiritualism and mysticism has passed now, except for having an interest in mythology from a storytelling perspective.

I do confess however, in moments of blind panic if something happens, like if I feel my leg muscles pull hard and painfully and not unknot themselves I do sometimes scream out and beg for whatever unknown entity in my lizard brain might be hearing. Guess thats just an instilled base reaction to pain.

Offline Baruch

Re: Religious Thought Relics
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2019, 12:28:03 AM »
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I was raised by a woman who while not religious, is someone who believes in certain levels of spiritualism and even practiced things like tarot and making charms and good luck trinkets. when going though my teens and even early into my 20s I tried to practice magic from books I brought from seaside trinket shops.

Obviously all my attachment to spiritualism and mysticism has passed now, except for having an interest in mythology from a storytelling perspective.

I do confess however, in moments of blind panic if something happens, like if I feel my leg muscles pull hard and painfully and not unknot themselves I do sometimes scream out and beg for whatever unknown entity in my lizard brain might be hearing. Guess thats just an instilled base reaction to pain.

This is why Puritans left England.  Too many witches.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Cavebear

Re: Religious Thought Relics
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2019, 05:56:26 AM »
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I was raised by a woman who while not religious, is someone who believes in certain levels of spiritualism and even practiced things like tarot and making charms and good luck trinkets. when going though my teens and even early into my 20s I tried to practice magic from books I brought from seaside trinket shops.

Obviously all my attachment to spiritualism and mysticism has passed now, except for having an interest in mythology from a storytelling perspective.

I do confess however, in moments of blind panic if something happens, like if I feel my leg muscles pull hard and painfully and not unknot themselves I do sometimes scream out and beg for whatever unknown entity in my lizard brain might be hearing. Guess thats just an instilled base reaction to pain.
One grandmother used to visit fortunetellers and dragged me along sometimes.  I always thought she was an idiot even as a child.

When I get muscle cramps, I apply Aspercreme.  It works very quickly.  It feels cold applied, but it relaxes the muscle in just a couple minutes.  And since it is local, it isn't like swallowing a couple pills and waiting 15 minutes for it to get into the bloodstream and spreading through the whole body..

Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Religious Thought Relics
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2019, 10:56:10 AM »
Humans, not just atheists, love to label family members, coworkers etc ... as idiots,
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline aitm

Re: Religious Thought Relics
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2019, 11:14:20 AM »
The cognitive path of humanity from it's infancy tracks very much like the cognitive path of children. They attach human attributes to inanimate objects just like early man did (animism), they progress to granting special "powers" to both inanimate and animate objects (totenism/shamanism), now left alone, their path of "spirituality" is simply attaching outcomes to previous actions and accepting it as "intervention". Left alone perhaps it goes no further and as they are introduced into education can understand the process.

Of course, this natural path is usually sidetracked by the forced introduction of cultural religion and establishes itself into accepting that one example of pray and reward out weights the millions of pray and no reward because positive reinforcement brings more joy and enjoyment than negative reinforcement brings misery.

Interesting to note that as we wait for this hurricane to move, my 7 year old granddaughter and I were walking around the house and she stopped and picked up her "friend" she was all excited, as she hadn't seen her "friend" in a long time. (truthfully since last year) and took off into the house to play with this rock she adopted as a friend when she was three/four.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Offline Baruch

Re: Religious Thought Relics
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2019, 11:15:58 AM »
Exactly.  But the idea that anyone is a "grown-up" is a false claim.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Cavebear

Re: Religious Thought Relics
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2019, 12:22:59 PM »
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The cognitive path of humanity from it's infancy tracks very much like the cognitive path of children. They attach human attributes to inanimate objects just like early man did (animism), they progress to granting special "powers" to both inanimate and animate objects (totenism/shamanism), now left alone, their path of "spirituality" is simply attaching outcomes to previous actions and accepting it as "intervention". Left alone perhaps it goes no further and as they are introduced into education can understand the process.

Of course, this natural path is usually sidetracked by the forced introduction of cultural religion and establishes itself into accepting that one example of pray and reward out weights the millions of pray and no reward because positive reinforcement brings more joy and enjoyment than negative reinforcement brings misery.

Interesting to note that as we wait for this hurricane to move, my 7 year old granddaughter and I were walking around the house and she stopped and picked up her "friend" she was all excited, as she hadn't seen her "friend" in a long time. (truthfully since last year) and took off into the house to play with this rock she adopted as a friend when she was three/four.

Well, at least rocks are real things.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Religious Thought Relics
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2019, 12:55:35 PM »
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Well, at least rocks are real things.

In that scenario you would have at least one friend ;-)
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: Religious Thought Relics
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2019, 01:03:22 PM »
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Exactly.  But the idea that anyone is a "grown-up" is a false claim.
In your case, it certainly is!
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Baruch

Re: Religious Thought Relics
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2019, 01:17:59 PM »
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In your case, it certainly is!

Keep playing with your GI Joe ;-)
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Cavebear

Re: Religious Thought Relics
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2019, 11:18:20 PM »
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In that scenario you would have at least one friend ;-)

If you made more sense "most times", I would reply to what you said other times.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Cavebear

Re: Religious Thought Relics
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2019, 11:30:41 PM »
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The cognitive path of humanity from it's infancy tracks very much like the cognitive path of children. They attach human attributes to inanimate objects just like early man did (animism), they progress to granting special "powers" to both inanimate and animate objects (totenism/shamanism), now left alone, their path of "spirituality" is simply attaching outcomes to previous actions and accepting it as "intervention". Left alone perhaps it goes no further and as they are introduced into education can understand the process.

Of course, this natural path is usually sidetracked by the forced introduction of cultural religion and establishes itself into accepting that one example of pray and reward out weights the millions of pray and no reward because positive reinforcement brings more joy and enjoyment than negative reinforcement brings misery.

Interesting to note that as we wait for this hurricane to move, my 7 year old granddaughter and I were walking around the house and she stopped and picked up her "friend" she was all excited, as she hadn't seen her "friend" in a long time. (truthfully since last year) and took off into the house to play with this rock she adopted as a friend when she was three/four.

I have previously and I think frequently said that human history is a process of moving from complete superstition to mild observation to considered thought to the development of the scientific method of thinking.

And that equally along the way, we have diminished the worry about gods in our minds.  Not that we are there yet for the majority of humans, but we approach that generation by generation.

We humans have gone from minor gods in every stream and brook and storm, to consolidated ones of Earth and Sky to specific ones like the Greek and Roman and Indian ones, to a single concept of a deity.

When that equally useless single deity fades away, we will finally be free of the entire deity concept.

It will not happen in my lifetime.  But I expect it will eventually.   
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

 

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