Author Topic: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes  (Read 1076 times)

Offline drunkenshoe

Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2019, 03:40:01 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Does Islam even have "saints"?

The tomb of Jesus that everyone worships at never held Jesus' body, but no one cares, since it's "traditional" to just accept the story as it's been handed down. Makes 'em feel better, I guess.

Nope not like that, but they are the same thing in the end. It has various types of characters of the sort. Also secularised muslims pray to all of them. They light candle in Churches, visit Mary's house...etc.

I even lighted candles a lot in my life. We used to go sit in Saint Antoine when we skipped school, it is always cool inside and we were allowed in as long as we behaved. (We weren't there to worship obviously ortherwise it is open to everyone.) There were always people in there. We used to buy candles too because they are different than the generic candles? It's exotic to us. There was an old priest, everyone knew. He blessed everyone. Well, he was old when I was a kid, probably passed away.

I still light candles when visiting very old ones in Europe. And buy candles.   

Saint Antoine is a very new church, it was built around in 1906 I guess.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

 
« Last Edit: August 16, 2019, 04:47:05 AM by drunkenshoe »
'the wise man does not seek enlightenment, he waits for it. so while ı was waiting, it occurred to me that seeking perplexity might be more fun.’ - lu-tze

Offline drunkenshoe

Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2019, 04:39:42 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I mean, he was something of a "holy man" (if you count how mythological Greek heroes and athletes were)... just uh, to the wrong gods ;). Think Allah might have gotten a bit jealous and booked them on a one-way trip to damnation?

That and Diagoras and his sons look pretty fit too,lol. :p

Quote
On a semi-related note that I was literally just talking to my mom about 5 minutes ago, and spent all day looking at, Turkey really is full of old Hellenic/pre-Greek tombs and ruins that no one (outside of Turkey, and probably inside as well) seems to know about... and that have never been touched by archaeologists.

Would you happen to know if many of these ruins are open to the public? The fact that they are just near little villages and have never been touched by archaeologists seems to suggest that no one actually cares they are there... and it would be cool to visit some ruins that are ruined by tourists or a paid experience.

I haven't been following but with the last government era, I doubt if anyone takes it seriously as they did it before. First reason is there are quite a few big ruins in Anatolia. And compared to them tombs like this one are too small. Probably, most of them were used to build other buildings hundreds of years ago and then were rebuilt by anything found around if noticed and taken as important. If you look at it from this angle we can never know how many are there, but yes there are a lot.

That is the biggest problem with ancient structures of any kind. Esp. the ones you mean, because they are small and easy to remove to begin with. They are a ready building material and get recycled through history many times. Temples, Churches, Mosques, kervansarays, tombs...when people leave the area they become ruins. Now what we can be sure about is any religious or military structure will be the first to get fixed and used again by any culture replacing the previous one. But ancient structures? Well, they have been treated as building materials by everyone for so long a time, you can get how crazy they built them because we still have a lot. You can even recognise ancient stones in other ancient buildings which have nothing to with that culture. It's a mess.     

They are building a road in a forsaken region, BAM! an ancient tomb, a sarcophagus in it. You move any sarcophagus to a museum, but if there is a little structure what are you going to do with it? It's not something you can make money, somewhere people don't even go around and not something famous that will take special attention. They are scattered around in villages across the peninsula. And mostly raided long time ago and goes on. If it is not buried deep without any sign, it was highly likley raided long time ago. But as there is a lot, probably rare examples still wait somewhere. This is another mess. 

Forget forsaken corners, they were building the part of subway BAM! they struck freaking 3500 year old tombs in the middle of a big city, Istanbul. Oeeeh.

It's problematic to make excavations in Turkey. First safety of course, eastern parts are not safe. But then, if you try to dig somewhere around highly likely you'll go down quite a lot of periods. You need an army of arcehologists with expertises on different periods. We don't have that. When they are too many, they pay attention to big ones. In that case German, French archeologists invade. That was the case before. I don't know what is going on right now. Nobody trusts the current gov about this. I didn't even trust the old secular one. But they are supposedly working. That is why I am not following, lol. 

Any artifact really valuable anywhere and didn't go through official channels will end up in Europe and surface later, lol.   

And some people carry pieces to their home and live with them in their houses or use them in building because it belongs to their land and because they like it. Column headings, reliefs... Yeah, I know. If you ask me, Diagoras's tomb probably was 'looked after' by the villagers. They shouldn't have done that, lol.

When somebody says 'ancient tomb' this would come to mind, more than the little one like that. I think you'd like it.

 You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

« Last Edit: August 16, 2019, 04:50:40 AM by drunkenshoe »
'the wise man does not seek enlightenment, he waits for it. so while ı was waiting, it occurred to me that seeking perplexity might be more fun.’ - lu-tze

Online Shiranu

Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2019, 01:37:54 AM »
Quote
And some people carry pieces to their home and live with them in their houses or use them in building because it belongs to their land and because they like it. Column headings, reliefs... Yeah, I know. If you ask me, Diagoras's tomb probably was 'looked after' by the villagers. They shouldn't have done that, lol.

I have mixed feelings about that. Of course I want ancient art and architecture to be preserved, but I also don't mind "living history" as it were. In 500 years, if they find an ancient column head or stone incorporated into a more modern structure... to them, they will find that an amazing example of two ancient cultures working together.

The tomb I definitely have strongly mixed feels about though.

And yep, digging the Lycian tombs. That was actually the culture I was looking at yesterday or day before. The site at Termessos looks particularly interesting. I doubt many people out side of Turkey knows of it's existence. Even Biblical cities like Ephesus and Antioch people probably just assume are in Israel.

« Last Edit: August 17, 2019, 01:39:37 AM by Shiranu »

Offline Baruch

Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
« Reply #18 on: August 17, 2019, 05:47:17 AM »
Sagalassos in SW Turkey

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Heroon to the upper right.  More on Diagoras ...

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
« Last Edit: August 17, 2019, 05:50:57 AM by Baruch »
Zampa xiquihto.  Amo nimitzcuamachilia.
Say it again.  I don't understand you.

Offline drunkenshoe

Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
« Reply #19 on: August 17, 2019, 02:21:55 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I have mixed feelings about that. Of course I want ancient art and architecture to be preserved, but I also don't mind "living history" as it were. In 500 years, if they find an ancient column head or stone incorporated into a more modern structure... to them, they will find that an amazing example of two ancient cultures working together.

The tomb I definitely have strongly mixed feels about though.

And yep, digging the Lycian tombs. That was actually the culture I was looking at yesterday or day before. The site at Termessos looks particularly interesting. I doubt many people out side of Turkey knows of it's existence. Even Biblical cities like Ephesus and Antioch people probably just assume are in Israel.



Ah just a few days ago, there was a documentary about this. It's a proper one. You are up to date. :)

If you like structures in rocks and mountains and don't mind the early Christian period, you'd like this one too. Probably you know it.

Sümela Monastery in Eastern Black Sea. Now that's what you call a monastery, lol. (4th century.)



'the wise man does not seek enlightenment, he waits for it. so while ı was waiting, it occurred to me that seeking perplexity might be more fun.’ - lu-tze

Online Shiranu

Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
« Reply #20 on: August 17, 2019, 10:18:32 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Ah just a few days ago, there was a documentary about this. It's a proper one. You are up to date. :)

If you like structures in rocks and mountains and don't mind the early Christian period, you'd like this one too. Probably you know it.

Sümela Monastery in Eastern Black Sea. Now that's what you call a monastery, lol. (4th century.)





Early Byzantine monastery, right? I believe I've seen it before.

There are so many places in Greece and Turkey I want to visit, as well as Sicily. That whole culture group has a weird place in my heart of being what I am descendant from, but also being almost foreign to me having been adopted out of that side of the family. That, and it's just beautiful architecture and artwork.


Turkey is such a beautiful country, it's a shame and disgrace the turmoil it keeps on going through and being put through. It's in too perfect of location to ever be left alone, I guess :(.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2019, 10:23:09 PM by Shiranu »

Offline Baruch

Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
« Reply #21 on: August 17, 2019, 11:26:07 PM »
With bandits, pirates, barbarians ... people took precautions to stay out of harms way.
Zampa xiquihto.  Amo nimitzcuamachilia.
Say it again.  I don't understand you.

Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
« Reply #22 on: August 18, 2019, 12:04:12 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
. We used to buy candles too because they are different than the generic candles?

Yes, generic candles are made from paraffin wax (made from petroleum, think "thickened kerosine"), and they're quite nasty. In the Christian churches that have been around since antiquity (Roman Catholic, Greek Orthodox, Byzantine, Coptic, etc.) they use beeswax candles. Beeswax candles don't have much of a scent all by themselves, but they don't pour out nasty black smoke and smell like a diesel exhaust when flickering as paraffin wax candles do. Also. sometimes they're infused with incense, particularly frankincense because it's listed as a gift of the Magi in the Book of Matthew. Walk into any Roman Catholic church, and you're smelling frankincense (not from the candles; they burn that in metal canisters to really get the smell permeating everywhere).   
« Last Edit: August 18, 2019, 12:07:02 AM by aileron »
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room! -- President Merkin Muffley

My mom was a religious fundamentalist. Plus, she didn't have a mouth. It's an unusual combination. -- Bender Bending Rodriguez

Offline Baruch

Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
« Reply #23 on: August 18, 2019, 01:09:46 AM »
This came out during the last Summer Olympics.  There were a few ancient Olympics that are well documented.  One of them relates to Diagoras' family (his son's win).  This is 100% accurate depiction ... 448 BC, and you are there ...

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Background documentary ...

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
« Last Edit: August 18, 2019, 01:24:34 AM by Baruch »
Zampa xiquihto.  Amo nimitzcuamachilia.
Say it again.  I don't understand you.

Offline drunkenshoe

Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
« Reply #24 on: August 18, 2019, 03:15:18 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Yes, generic candles are made from paraffin wax (made from petroleum, think "thickened kerosine"), and they're quite nasty. In the Christian churches that have been around since antiquity (Roman Catholic, Greek Orthodox, Byzantine, Coptic, etc.) they use beeswax candles. Beeswax candles don't have much of a scent all by themselves, but they don't pour out nasty black smoke and smell like a diesel exhaust when flickering as paraffin wax candles do. Also. sometimes they're infused with incense, particularly frankincense because it's listed as a gift of the Magi in the Book of Matthew. Walk into any Roman Catholic church, and you're smelling frankincense (not from the candles; they burn that in metal canisters to really get the smell permeating everywhere).

Yep, I know that smell. I have seen a doc on how priests used to make them years ago. I think it was that primitive shape and that colour we liked.

There is this beach in Aegean and it only has flat stones in it. Like saucers? My sister and I used to collect them and stick those candles on it with 3s and 4s close to each other, clustered at one side. It looked nice, like a movie prop. I still have one or two of those stones, haven't been there more than 20 years though.

« Last Edit: August 18, 2019, 03:27:33 AM by drunkenshoe »
'the wise man does not seek enlightenment, he waits for it. so while ı was waiting, it occurred to me that seeking perplexity might be more fun.’ - lu-tze

Offline Cavebear

Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
« Reply #25 on: August 24, 2019, 04:58:45 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Not every post is a criticism.

Yours are usually either criticisms or bad jokes.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
« Reply #26 on: August 24, 2019, 10:38:29 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Yours are usually either criticisms or bad jokes.

You don't like me?  I consider you a rug, fit for risqué baby pictures.
Zampa xiquihto.  Amo nimitzcuamachilia.
Say it again.  I don't understand you.

Offline Cavebear

Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
« Reply #27 on: August 27, 2019, 12:37:59 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You don't like me?  I consider you a rug, fit for risqué baby pictures.

As I've said many times, I think you are intelligent and have more promise than you show.  I just wish you used that intelligence more often.

As to the rug thing, I LOVED IT!  That may be the most creative insult I've seen in YEARS!  The concept of "risque baby pictures" is truly amazing.  Did you get it from somewhere or come up with it on your own?  I could probably look it up.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
« Reply #28 on: August 27, 2019, 02:19:45 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
As I've said many times, I think you are intelligent and have more promise than you show.  I just wish you used that intelligence more often.

As to the rug thing, I LOVED IT!  That may be the most creative insult I've seen in YEARS!  The concept of "risque baby pictures" is truly amazing.  Did you get it from somewhere or come up with it on your own?  I could probably look it up.

I heard, maybe a decade ago (old memory association) that parents were getting arrested for making such traditional portraits of infants (I assume baby is face down to screen the genitals).  More of that Puritan shit from your people.
Zampa xiquihto.  Amo nimitzcuamachilia.
Say it again.  I don't understand you.

Offline Cavebear

Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
« Reply #29 on: August 27, 2019, 02:57:59 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I heard, maybe a decade ago (old memory association) that parents were getting arrested for making such traditional portraits of infants (I assume baby is face down to screen the genitals).  More of that Puritan shit from your people.

Like Trump, you just can't help tossing in an insult at the end. 

You seem to be obsessed with the idea that just because I'm a Yankee of the 1900s, I must be Puritan of the 1600s.  Far from it.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk