Author Topic: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes  (Read 3034 times)

Online drunkenshoe

Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
« on: August 15, 2019, 04:11:33 AM »
LOL, apparently, a 2300 years old tomb in Marmaris, now recognised as the tomb of the ancient boxing legend Diagoras, have been mistaken as a tomb of a 'holy man' or a saint for a very long time and people, esp. locals have visited and prayed there for centuries. In 70s, after a newspaper reported that it was not a holy figure, it got looted but the tradition didn't die. Until a few days ago. You'd think this would provide some perspective,lol.

Probably, it was raided long time ago imo though. Considering the age of the tomb, old looters only looked for gold and precious things, the idea that the simple objects in an ancient Greek athlete's tomb would make money is relatively new. Also they are too many tombs like this in Anatolia. I mean, it can't be the first raid. They wouldn't know what it is and they are not going to stop, because it is 'holy'.

https://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/mistaken-belief-turkish-blessings-olympic-boxer-tomb-021915
'the wise man does not seek enlightenment, he waits for it. so while ı was waiting, it occurred to me that seeking perplexity might be more fun.’ - lu-tze

Offline Baruch

Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2019, 08:01:16 AM »
In the ME and North Africa, there are Muslim saints tombs, which are revered, though Salafis oppose it).  So is an easy mistake to do, once you have a Muslim population in the area.  If it is a tomb of Diagoras, this athlete wes one of the characters highlighted in a video recreation of the ancient Olympic games I saw a couple years ago.  It told the story of all winners at the games that year.

I have been to Olympia, during my Greek tour.  Thought it was an impressive ruin.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Offline Cavebear

Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2019, 08:08:43 AM »
In the ME and North Africa, there are Muslim saints tombs, which are revered, though Salafis oppose it).  So is an easy mistake to do, once you have a Muslim population in the area.  If it is a tomb of Diagoras, this athlete wes one of the characters highlighted in a video recreation of the ancient Olympic games I saw a couple years ago.  It told the story of all winners at the games that year.

I have been to Olympia, during my Greek tour.  Thought it was an impressive ruin.

The instant I saw drunkenshoe's post, I knew to look for yours.  You are predictable.  Any statement by ANYONE will get a criticism from you.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2019, 08:31:07 AM »
The instant I saw drunkenshoe's post, I knew to look for yours.  You are predictable.  Any statement by ANYONE will get a criticism from you.

Not every post is a criticism.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Offline Cavebear

Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2019, 10:51:19 AM »
Not every post is a criticism.

OK, you probably said something nice to someone else sometime.  Not that I recall it though...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Online drunkenshoe

Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2019, 02:14:59 PM »
I thought it is funny because Diagoras was an athlete. Otherwise, muslims known to pray at saints' tombs and by that I mean Christian Saints. 
'the wise man does not seek enlightenment, he waits for it. so while ı was waiting, it occurred to me that seeking perplexity might be more fun.’ - lu-tze

Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2019, 02:17:49 PM »
Does Islam even have "saints"?

The tomb of Jesus that everyone worships at never held Jesus' body, but no one cares, since it's "traditional" to just accept the story as it's been handed down. Makes 'em feel better, I guess.
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Offline Cavebear

Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2019, 02:32:05 PM »
Does Islam even have "saints"?

The tomb of Jesus that everyone worships at never held Jesus' body, but no one cares, since it's "traditional" to just accept the story as it's been handed down. Makes 'em feel better, I guess.

My understanding is that Moslems don't have "saints" in the sense an adherent can pray to them for assistance like Christian Catholics do.  But there is a sense that all the dead adherents who are saved are somehow "saintlike".
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2019, 05:27:34 PM »
OK, you probably said something nice to someone else sometime.  Not that I recall it though...

I would give you many more kudos, but you are too shy, girlish ... to accept them.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Offline Baruch

Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2019, 05:28:12 PM »
I thought it is funny because Diagoras was an athlete. Otherwise, muslims known to pray at saints' tombs and by that I mean Christian Saints.

Medieval Judaism did the same thing with Kabbalah masters.  Safed in particular.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Offline Baruch

Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2019, 05:29:38 PM »
My understanding is that Moslems don't have "saints" in the sense an adherent can pray to them for assistance like Christian Catholics do.  But there is a sense that all the dead adherents who are saved are somehow "saintlike".

No.  Islam has had many faces over 1400 years.  Until a hundred years ago, the current Salafism would have been a heresy.  Saint worship was the norm, just like in Catholic countries.  But now everything is seen in that light.  Like you can't see Judaism without modern Israel in the middle of it.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Online Shiranu

Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2019, 07:21:47 PM »
LOL, apparently, a 2300 years old tomb in Marmaris, now recognised as the tomb of the ancient boxing legend Diagoras, have been mistaken as a tomb of a 'holy man' or a saint for a very long time and people, esp. locals have visited and prayed there for centuries. In 70s, after a newspaper reported that it was not a holy figure, it got looted but the tradition didn't die. Until a few days ago. You'd think this would provide some perspective,lol.

Probably, it was raided long time ago imo though. Considering the age of the tomb, old looters only looked for gold and precious things, the idea that the simple objects in an ancient Greek athlete's tomb would make money is relatively new. Also they are too many tombs like this in Anatolia. I mean, it can't be the first raid. They wouldn't know what it is and they are not going to stop, because it is 'holy'.

https://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/mistaken-belief-turkish-blessings-olympic-boxer-tomb-021915


I mean, he was something of a "holy man" (if you count how mythological Greek heroes and athletes were)... just uh, to the wrong gods ;). Think Allah might have gotten a bit jealous and booked them on a one-way trip to damnation?

On a semi-related note that I was literally just talking to my mom about 5 minutes ago, and spent all day looking at, Turkey really is full of old Hellenic/pre-Greek tombs and ruins that no one (outside of Turkey, and probably inside as well) seems to know about... and that have never been touched by archaeologists.

Would you happen to know if many of these ruins are open to the public? The fact that they are just near little villages and have never been touched by archaeologists seems to suggest that no one actually cares they are there... and it would be cool to visit some ruins that are ruined by tourists or a paid experience.

Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2019, 07:31:11 PM »
I thought it is funny because Diagoras was an athlete. Otherwise, muslims known to pray at saints' tombs and by that I mean Christian Saints.
Well, hell, christians will pray to anything--some toast with jesus' face on it.  A knuckle bone of a 'saint'.  A place where someone saw or was spoken to by jesus, god, mary, or whatever.......................(And christians are not idol worshipers--right??!)  Do muslims do the same?
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

« Last Edit: August 15, 2019, 07:38:57 PM by Unbeliever »
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Offline Baruch

Re: Mistaken Tomb of Diagoras of Rhodes
« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2019, 01:22:17 AM »
I mean, he was something of a "holy man" (if you count how mythological Greek heroes and athletes were)... just uh, to the wrong gods ;). Think Allah might have gotten a bit jealous and booked them on a one-way trip to damnation?

On a semi-related note that I was literally just talking to my mom about 5 minutes ago, and spent all day looking at, Turkey really is full of old Hellenic/pre-Greek tombs and ruins that no one (outside of Turkey, and probably inside as well) seems to know about... and that have never been touched by archaeologists.

Would you happen to know if many of these ruins are open to the public? The fact that they are just near little villages and have never been touched by archaeologists seems to suggest that no one actually cares they are there... and it would be cool to visit some ruins that are ruined by tourists or a paid experience.

In ancient Greek culture, a monument to a historical person who was a demi-god, was common.  Called a "heroon".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroon
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.