The Logic of Atheists vs. Theist Arguments

Started by Absolute_Agent, July 31, 2019, 05:16:05 PM

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Blackleaf

#195
Quote from: Absolute_Agent on August 13, 2019, 05:36:53 PM

Steven Jay Gould & Richard Dawkins might agree with that opinion, but religion and science have a long history together.  The first science, astronomy / astrology, was indistinguishable from religion.

Deus summus

I don't care what astrology used to be. In the 21st Century, science is about studying nature. The supernatural is beyond its scope. Most likely because the supernatural doesn't exist, but still. Science makes no claims regarding religion. The only time the two intersect is when religion makes false claims about the real world, such as when Jesus said you couldn't get sick from anything that goes in your mouth, or when a sheep herder made a sheep stare at sticks so its offspring would have stripes, and it actually worked, or when the family tree from Adam to Jesus implies the earth is only a few thousand years old. But that's religion's fault for not sticking to nonfalsifiable claims.
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville--

Absolute_Agent

#196
Quote from: Blackleaf on August 13, 2019, 06:05:06 PM
I don't care what astrology used to be. In the 21st Century, science is about studying nature. The supernatural is beyond its scope. Most likely because the supernatural doesn't exist, but still. Science makes no claims regarding religion. The only time the two intersect is when religion makes false claims about the real world, such as when Jesus said you couldn't get sick from anything that goes in your mouth, or when a sheep herder made a sheep stare at sticks so its offspring would have stripes, and it actually worked, or when the family tree from Adam to Jesus implies the earth is only a few thousand years old. But that's religion's fault for not sticking to nonfalsifiable claims.
Einstein said "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." In the 20th century.  Time to throw away the theory of relativity guys, anything pre-Y2K is now discredited as per Unbeliever.

Deus summus

josephpalazzo

Quote from: Absolute_Agent on August 13, 2019, 06:25:48 PM
Einstein said "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

“The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish.”

- Albert Einstein

Baruch

Quote from: josephpalazzo on August 13, 2019, 06:47:33 PM
“The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish.”

- Albert Einstein

And Einstein is still your god, not Feynman?  (rhetorical question).
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

Quote from: Hydra009 on August 13, 2019, 03:53:44 PM
I'm picturing you as a duck.  Feel anything yet?

Thought leads to action.  Action leads to changing reality.  Thought doesn't directly change reality.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

Quote from: Absolute_Agent on August 13, 2019, 10:57:42 AM
Anyone who challenges the anti-theistic dogma of scientism is treated like this.  No surprise there. 

Deus summus

Two kinds of people.  Idiots and total morons.  If you think someone is smarter than you, then you are an idiot.  If you are the person that someone thinks is smart, and you agree wit them, then you are a total moron.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

Quote from: josephpalazzo on August 13, 2019, 03:17:03 PM
It's not God we should fear, but the people who believe in God...

Correct.  And those who believe in Marx, Mussolini etc.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

Quote from: Blackleaf on August 13, 2019, 03:29:47 PM
Anti-thiestic dogma of scientism... Typical ignorant theist. Science has nothing to do with religion, and it has no dogma. If you find your religion in conflict with science, the problem you have is with reality, not science.

Science is a thing.  Something people do.  And scientism is one of their false views about science.  Anti-theism and theism are also things people do.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

Quote from: Unbeliever on August 13, 2019, 03:30:36 PM
Yeah, anyone who believes they have God on their side is dangerous as hell.

I certainly hope so.  Those who have dead atheists on their side (Rousseau, Marx etc) only have corpses for help.  Whitewalkers perhaps?
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

Quote from: Absolute_Agent on August 13, 2019, 05:36:53 PM

Steven Jay Gould & Richard Dawkins might agree with that opinion, but religion and science have a long history together.  The first science, astronomy / astrology, was indistinguishable from religion.

Deus summus

Athiests think they are free of dogma.  If so, why do they keep quoting atheists of past times?
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Blackleaf

Quote from: Absolute_Agent on August 13, 2019, 06:25:48 PM
Einstein said "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." In the 20th century.  Time to throw away the theory of relativity guys, anything pre-Y2K is now discredited as per Unbeliever.

Deus summus

You're conflating one scientist's personal opinions with scientific claims. The two are not the same things.
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville--

Blackleaf

Quote from: Baruch on August 14, 2019, 12:04:53 AM
Athiests think they are free of dogma.  If so, why do they keep quoting atheists of past times?

Because they said something we agreed with, and couldn't put into better words ourselves? Even then, we're choosing our own people to quote. We are not as a group coming together to decide whose opinions to accept into atheistic canon.
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville--

Baruch

Quote from: Blackleaf on August 14, 2019, 02:05:29 AM
Because they said something we agreed with, and couldn't put into better words ourselves? Even then, we're choosing our own people to quote. We are not as a group coming together to decide whose opinions to accept into atheistic canon.

OK.  But what is dogma?  Just past opinions you disagree with?
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Mr.Obvious

Quote from: Baruch on August 14, 2019, 02:22:59 AM
OK.  But what is dogma?  Just past opinions you disagree with?

Dogma is a point of view, doctrine or tenet put forth for your acceptance solely on authoritive ground, without adequate reason to believe it.

Statements by the church are dogma, not because we don't agree with them, but because they are the above.
What we believe from scientists tends to be with adequate reason.
And what other atheists like, for example, Hitchens, says, is not put forth on authoritative grounds. I. E. Hitchens' did not make you agree with his vision, nor did he ask you to accept it blindly.
"If we have to go down, we go down together!"
- Your mum, last night, requesting 69.

Atheist Mantis does not pray.

josephpalazzo

Quote from: Baruch on August 13, 2019, 11:57:29 PM
And Einstein is still your god, not Feynman?  (rhetorical question).
I haven't found anything more powerful as an idea than Feynman's propagator - it's going to be in my next book...