Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?

[Cavebear]

No, not possible, there was no cooperation possible. Hitler hated Stalin and considered him a vermin to be exterminated.

Dictators love each other when there are no borders.  And if Hitler had been more than a talented con man talking machine and even an average General, he would have left Stalin alone and just taken all Europe. And Stalin wouldn't have bothered him then.   

[Baruch]

Yes I am. When Hitler took power in 1933, Stalin had already murdered over 10 millions of people in the USSR. Hitler is a monster, but Stalin is a humongous monster. That Churchill, along with Roosevelt, decided to help Stalin is a major blunder that turned into a catastrophe - half of Europe was given to Stalin. These countries had to wait another 50 years to free themselves from Russian oppression. So I don't consider Churchill to be a hero but a fumbling foolish warmonger.

Well, as the counter-intuitive one ... Hitler and Stalin didn't kill enough people.  And yes, you would support Chamberlain and Lord Halifax.  That much is bloody clear.

[Baruch]

I'm not disputing those facts. My argument with Baruch is that he idolizes Churchill. My counter-point is that Churchill made a major blunder with respect to Stalin. My claim is that if the Allies had abstained in the conflict between Hitler and Stalin, the two would have fought for many more years, and by that time both Germany and Russia would have been exhausted, and the Allies would not have been in the position of ceding half of Europe to Stalin. With the huge help, in the billions of dollars, which in today's currency, trillions of dollars, Stalin repelled the Germans but also was in a strong position to demand a huge prize - half of Europe. Had you been born in one of those countries, and suffered for the next 50 years Russian oppression, you would be of a different opinion. That I know for sure.

As the Uber-Fuhrer of memes and avatars, you don't like my change of icon.  My Churchill mows you down with his Thompson.  Even if he wasn't perfect.

[Baruch]

I come across people who think they understand everything about WWII from time to time.  Many of them focus on specific dates or battles or treaties or whatnot.  What I seldom see are people who grasp a whole picture.

The problem with alternative history, is after you take back all the decisions by all sides, you are left with nothing to talk about.

If I were G-d, then that would be an alternative history, all of it.  I absolutely don't want to be that.  I know better than to trust my liberal virtue signaling hypocrisy.

[Baruch]

You are confusing the direct events with the aftermath.  The Soviet occupation of Eastern Europe was brutal and horrid almost beyond belief.  I don't contest that in the least bit.  What you are failing to understand is that it could have been worse (Nazi death camps from England to Siberia) and that struggling with one insane brutal dictator was better than 2 in competition for who could kill the most.

Hitler:  I killed 4 million last year
Stalin:  I killed 8 million
Hitler: Verdamft, how?
Stalin:  Siberia and rat poison in all the food.
Hitler:  Can I get a bit of Siberia?
Stalin, No, its all mine.  Go melt in Germany..
Hitler: Oh I envy you so...
Stalin:  You should see Mao.
Hitler:  Why?
Stalin: Claimed 20 million.
Hitler: No way.
Stalin:  Way, he just works them to death.

Woke!

[josephpalazzo]

As the Uber-Fuhrer of memes and avatars, you don't like my change of icon.  My Churchill mows you down with his Thompson.  Even if he wasn't perfect.

Hmm, the guy is so fat that he's an easy target, even for someone like me who never handle a gun...

[Baruch]

Hmm, the guy is so fat that he's an easy target, even for someone like me who never handle a gun...

I was implying you use Uber services, you running dog of capitalism.

[josephpalazzo]

I was implying you use Uber services, you running dog of capitalism.

Uber service is over-rated. Every time I used and gave them a bad rating, they reciprocate in kind... bunch of assholes...

[Baruch]

Uber service is over-rated. Every time I used and gave them a bad rating, they reciprocate in kind... bunch of assholes...

Sometimes they rob or rape their customers.  You were lucky.

[josephpalazzo]

Sometimes they rob or rape their customers.  You were lucky.

Yeah, I would like to see them try that on me...

[Baruch]

Yeah, I would like to see them try that on me...

Only if you are traumatized into an out-of-body experience, while Bubba rapes you ;-(

[josephpalazzo]

Only if you are traumatized into an out-of-body experience, while Bubba rapes you ;-(

Your bubba will turn into a ABBA, singing Chiquitita"

[Baruch]

Your bubba will turn into a ABBA, singing Chiquitita"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05qid4p_cfw

[josephpalazzo]

Saw  the musical in Vegas...

[Greatest I am]

I hope you are correct.  But as it turned out, Hitler was a bug on a windshield--but before that mess was finished, he had managed to break a whole lot of windshields.  And the German people were not that bright, but they were not stupid enough to follow Hitler into a fight.  Right?????

I see us as having better morals and ethics than in those years, except for the right wingers, who are now the minority and not the majority.

I will give you that anything could happen, but I do not see your military as that stupid.

Regards
DL