Author Topic: Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?  (Read 4421 times)

Re: Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?
« Reply #135 on: August 14, 2019, 03:00:53 PM »
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Some people hated Churchill before WW II.  Others hated Churchill during WW II.  Yet more hated Churchill after WW II, and even after he died.
He was a warmonger, wanted to restore the old British empire to its former glory, gave Stalin half of Europe. What's there to celebrate???

Re: Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?
« Reply #136 on: August 14, 2019, 03:25:54 PM »
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Where we differ.  I want the US out of the UN.  I don't want to be tied to other Americans, let alone to non-Americans who's interests are opposed to mine.

Check the stats. The U.S. needs help more than most nations.

As to interests, the stats also show how uniform the human race is in terms of goals.

A one world government is on the way so you may as well get used to it.

Regards
DL



Offline Baruch

Re: Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?
« Reply #137 on: August 14, 2019, 07:15:31 PM »
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He was a warmonger, wanted to restore the old British empire to its former glory, gave Stalin half of Europe. What's there to celebrate???

Exactly.  You put yourself into the true Deplorable category.  But I do that too myself too.  We should have marched into the Soviet Union, exterminated the communists, then turned around and done the same thing in W Europe, N America and elsewhere (per General Patton).  The 1960s would never have happened (as sponsored by the KGB).

There is nothing wrong with war.  As natural as breast feeding.  Pacifists however are .. psychos and cowards.  Including Mahatma Gandhi (not a coward, but was a psycho).
« Last Edit: August 14, 2019, 07:20:14 PM by Baruch »
Zampa xiquihto.  Amo nimitzcuamachilia.
Say it again.  I don't understand you.

Offline Baruch

Re: Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?
« Reply #138 on: August 14, 2019, 07:18:36 PM »
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Check the stats. The U.S. needs help more than most nations.

As to interests, the stats also show how uniform the human race is in terms of goals.

A one world government is on the way so you may as well get used to it.

Regards
DL

Other nations want the US dead.  I see that as no help at all.  It is only by restraint, that I don't call for one-world-government, after the elimination of all non-Americans.  I know how Hitler felt.  That is how triggered I am by all the bath-salt politics.  So fine, let everyone enslave themselves to Geneva, The Hague and Brussels.  Not my problem.  If it become a problem, we can ban all visas from W Europe.  After WW I, WW II there is deep suspicion in the US of anything ... European.
Zampa xiquihto.  Amo nimitzcuamachilia.
Say it again.  I don't understand you.

Re: Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?
« Reply #139 on: August 14, 2019, 07:26:44 PM »
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A one world government is on the way so you may as well get used to it.

IMO the best functional definition of government is the monopoly of violence. Based on that definition, recent history has increased the number of governments, not consolidated them.
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room! -- President Merkin Muffley

My mom was a religious fundamentalist. Plus, she didn't have a mouth. It's an unusual combination. -- Bender Bending Rodriguez

Re: Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?
« Reply #140 on: August 14, 2019, 07:29:01 PM »
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Exactly.  You put yourself into the true Deplorable category.  But I do that too myself too.  We should have marched into the Soviet Union, exterminated the communists, then turned around and done the same thing in W Europe, N America and elsewhere (per General Patton).  The 1960s would never have happened (as sponsored by the KGB).

There is nothing wrong with war.  As natural as breast feeding.  Pacifists however are .. psychos and cowards.  Including Mahatma Gandhi.
It would have taken less than that. All the allies had to do is to not supply the USSR while the Germans were invading. It might have taken 10 or more years for Stalin to turn the tide without Allies supplying with just about everything, including vital information on what was happening on the ground. Of course a lot of this was kept secret as Americans might not have approved.

Offline Baruch

Re: Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?
« Reply #141 on: August 14, 2019, 07:32:51 PM »
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IMO the best functional definition of government is the monopoly of violence. Based on that definition, recent history has increased the number of governments, not consolidated them.

That is correct.  And paradoxical and troubling.  I am split on the dilemma between anarchism and dictatorship.  Consolidating governments convert all wars to civil wars, and greatly increase bureaucracy, and thus increase inefficiency.  If that worked, then the Soviet Union would have been an unbeatable success ... as would have Ming Dynasty China.
Zampa xiquihto.  Amo nimitzcuamachilia.
Say it again.  I don't understand you.

Offline Baruch

Re: Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?
« Reply #142 on: August 14, 2019, 07:34:56 PM »
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It would have taken less than that. All the allies had to do is to not supply the USSR while the Germans were invading. It might have taken 10 or more years for Stalin to turn the tide without Allies supplying with just about everything, including vital information on what was happening on the ground. Of course a lot of this was kept secret as Americans might not have approved.

Yes, that was a choice.  And that is why you hate Churchill.  He couldn't stand the Germans, and was wiling to cut a deal with Stalin.  A philo-German would look the other way at the problems of the Third Reich, to concentrate on the bigger problem.  And that is why I consider you the most dangerous person who posts here.
Zampa xiquihto.  Amo nimitzcuamachilia.
Say it again.  I don't understand you.

Re: Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?
« Reply #143 on: August 14, 2019, 07:43:36 PM »
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Yes, that was a choice.  And that is why you hate Churchill.  He couldn't stand the Germans, and was wiling to cut a deal with Stalin.  A philo-German would look the other way at the problems of the Third Reich, to concentrate on the bigger problem.


Yes it was a good deal for Stain - half of Europe. The Polish, Ukrainians, Belarusians, Georgians, and fifteen other nationalities would strongly disagree with you.

Quote
And that is why I consider you the most dangerous person who posts here.
Need I remind you that flattery won't get you anywhere...

Offline Baruch

Re: Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?
« Reply #144 on: August 14, 2019, 07:52:01 PM »
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Yes it was a good deal for Stain - half of Europe. The Polish, Ukrainians, Belarusians, Georgians, and fifteen other nationalities would strongly disagree with you.
Need I remind you that flattery won't get you anywhere...

Churchill didn't want Stalin occupying E Europe either.  He and Patton agreed.  But the US wasn't interested in another Churchill crusade (Churchill was the first to lead the anti-Bolshevik movement around 1918).  But that is how one goes down the rabbit hole of alternative history.
Zampa xiquihto.  Amo nimitzcuamachilia.
Say it again.  I don't understand you.

Re: Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?
« Reply #145 on: August 14, 2019, 08:35:58 PM »
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Churchill didn't want Stalin occupying E Europe either.  He and Patton agreed.  But the US wasn't interested in another Churchill crusade (Churchill was the first to lead the anti-Bolshevik movement around 1918).  But that is how one goes down the rabbit hole of alternative history.
Trying to apologize for your idol?! His hate for Hitler clouded his judgment. The smart thing would have been to let Hitler and Stalin fight it out. Whoever would win would be so exhausted that for the Allies it would have been a walk in the park in cleaning up any German resistance in West Europe. Very few historians are willing to admit openly that our so-called "heroes", Churchill and Roosevelt, were dumb to help Stalin, and were outplayed by Stalin at Yalta.

Re: Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?
« Reply #146 on: August 14, 2019, 09:47:17 PM »
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Other nations want the US dead. 

Not really. Just changed to a moral nation.

Regards
DL

Re: Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?
« Reply #147 on: August 14, 2019, 09:50:02 PM »
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IMO the best functional definition of government is the monopoly of violence. Based on that definition, recent history has increased the number of governments, not consolidated them.

Global climate change and mass immigrations and migrations will cause us to either war a lot more or unite a lot more.

I don't think the world want's to war more. Especially in the West.

Regards
DL

Re: Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?
« Reply #148 on: August 14, 2019, 09:50:58 PM »
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Global climate change and mass immigrations and migrations will cause us to either war a lot more or unite a lot more.

I don't think the world want's to war more. Especially in the West.

Regards
DL
Tell that to trump/bolton.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Re: Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?
« Reply #149 on: August 14, 2019, 09:58:50 PM »
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Global climate change and mass immigrations and migrations will cause us to either war a lot more or unite a lot more.

I don't think the world want's to war more. Especially in the West.

Regards
DL

There's no a priori reason trading a bigger government for two or more smaller ones leads to war. The Soviet Union went from one government to fifteen with almost no bloodshed. Czechoslovakia split peacefully with Ceaușescu and his deer in the headlights expression one of the only fatalities. Yugoslavia turned into a shit show, but some parts broke away without a shot fired, such as Slovenia.

In fact, a good case can be made that wars are more likely when governments encompass groups who simply don't get along, such as Austria-Hungary and the Ottoman Empire leading into WWI.
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room! -- President Merkin Muffley

My mom was a religious fundamentalist. Plus, she didn't have a mouth. It's an unusual combination. -- Bender Bending Rodriguez

 

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