Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?

Started by Greatest I am, July 25, 2019, 03:49:55 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Baruch

Quote from: Unbeliever on July 31, 2019, 02:50:03 PM
Yeah, the U.S. is based on the profoundly Christian principles of genocide and slavery.

Yes, so much different from Islam ;-)  Jews would do the same, but there are never enough of us to deal with the "Gentile" problem.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Greatest I am

Quote from: Unbeliever on July 31, 2019, 02:50:03 PM
Yeah, the U.S. is based on the profoundly Christian principles of genocide and slavery.

I agree.

Regards
DL

Unbeliever

Quote from: Baruch on July 31, 2019, 03:03:51 PM
Yes, so much different from Islam ;-)  Jews would do the same, but there are never enough of us to deal with the "Gentile" problem.

No more Canaanites to murder and pillage, huh?
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Greatest I am

Quote from: Baruch on July 31, 2019, 02:59:12 PM
I am in favor of leadership not rule.  If you still have French culture, I would expect you to support that. 

I do.

The question now becomes, how does one become a leader without the majority voting him in?

You have not gotten us away from majority rule by changing the language to majority based leadership.

Regards
DL

Baruch

Quote from: Greatest I am on July 31, 2019, 03:18:14 PM
I agree.

Regards
DL

People are violent.  In spite of our friendship, if we met, under different circumstances, I would drink your blood mixed with wine from a goblet made from your skull.  Find your inner Conan.  Worship Lord Krum.  My religion or lack thereof is irrelevant.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

Quote from: Unbeliever on July 31, 2019, 03:21:31 PM
No more Canaanites to murder and pillage, huh?

Original Jews were mostly Canaanites themselves.  The Puritan wing of Canaan.  There are still a lot of people who need a tent peg put thru their heads.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

Quote from: Greatest I am on July 31, 2019, 03:22:19 PM
I do.

The question now becomes, how does one become a leader without the majority voting him in?

You have not gotten us away from majority rule by changing the language to majority based leadership.

Regards
DL

The Athenians used lots to pick many offices from a bucket of names including everyone eligible.  That was real democracy, because they realized the compete BS of persuasion and greasing palms.  But persuasion and greasing palms won in the end.  "This is Sparta!"

That the majority ever rule is complete BS, even with uncorrupt elections.  Pericles can eat my baklava.  Do to unexpected events, his leadership, the greatest Athens ever had, was a complete disaster.  Nemesis, a goddess, is in charge.

There are many wrong answers.  Humanity has never found right answer.  But I like General Sherman ... "I will not run if nominated, will not serve if elected".
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Greatest I am

Quote from: Baruch on July 31, 2019, 03:22:51 PM
People are violent.  In spit of our friendship, if we met, under different circumstances, I would drink your blood mixed with wine from a goblet made from your skull.  Find your inner Conan.  My religion or lack thereof is irrelevant.

Conan?

Why reduce myself to a -----
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsUCRcK7QYc

Yes. It is all circumstance. Live long and prosper.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am

Quote from: Baruch on July 31, 2019, 03:23:29 PM
Original Jews were mostly Canaanites themselves.  The Puritan wing of Canaan.  There are still a lot of people who need a tent peg put thru their heads.

Our oligarch owners will not let people pull that red white and blue peg out of their rears to put it in anyone's head.

Regards,
DL

Greatest I am

Quote from: Baruch on July 31, 2019, 03:27:46 PM
The Athenians used lots to pick many offices from a bucket of names including everyone eligible.  That was real democracy, because they realized the compete BS of persuasion and greasing palms.  But persuasion and greasing palms won in the end.  "This is Sparta!"

That the majority ever rule is complete BS, even with uncorrupt elections.  Pericles can eat my baklava.  Do to unexpected events, his leadership, the greatest Athens ever had, was a complete disaster.  Nemesis, a goddess, is in charge.

There are many wrong answers.  Humanity has never found right answer.  But I like General Sherman ... "I will not run if nominated, will not serve if elected".

You see a half empty glass while I see a glass that is quite full but unfortunately complacent and that is why history takes so long.

Only a historian or demographer are likely qualified to rule the world. Step up.

Regards,
DL

Unbeliever

Quote from: Greatest I am on July 31, 2019, 07:59:02 PM
Our oligarch owners will not let people pull that red white and blue peg out of their rears to put it in anyone's head.

Regards,
DL

Baruch's the very model of a biblical philologist...:-P
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Shiranu

Quote from: Greatest I am on July 31, 2019, 08:06:28 PM
You see a half empty glass while I see a glass that is quite full but unfortunately complacent and that is why history takes so long.

Only a historian or demographer are likely qualified to rule the world. Step up.

Regards,
DL


Personally I am finding myself with a more and more Platonian view of governance and leadership; democracy is the second worse form of government, only after tyranny of the corrupt.

Government should be specialized, and the leading class should be philosophers before anything else. An aristocracy where the people who rule are the people who are least interested in ruling for any reason other than duty and knowledge.
"A little science distances you from God, but a lot of science brings you nearer to Him." - Louis Pasteur

Baruch

Quote from: Greatest I am on July 31, 2019, 08:06:28 PM
You see a half empty glass while I see a glass that is quite full but unfortunately complacent and that is why history takes so long.

Only a historian or demographer are likely qualified to rule the world. Step up.

Regards,
DL

Girly men ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmpBzm5RknI
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

Quote from: Shiranu on July 31, 2019, 10:45:17 PM
Personally I am finding myself with a more and more Platonian view of governance and leadership; democracy is the second worse form of government, only after tyranny of the corrupt.

Government should be specialized, and the leading class should be philosophers before anything else. An aristocracy where the people who rule are the people who are least interested in ruling for any reason other than duty and knowledge.

You are growing up.  But it won't stop this year, it will go on and on.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Quote from: Baruch on July 31, 2019, 03:27:46 PM
The Athenians used lots to pick many offices from a bucket of names including everyone eligible.  That was real democracy, because they realized the compete BS of persuasion and greasing palms. 

IIRC, in Van Vogt's Null-A (Non-Aristotelian), leaders were picked at random through peoples' ID cards.  Which seemed to work pretty well.  But ID cards (selfs sort of) could be sold to the equivalent of Robber Barons in exchange for employment and shelter.  At the end, the person who designed the system handed Gilbert Gosseyn (the protaganist and best example of Null-A he knew) the winning IDs of the next 6 leaders (so Gosseyn would remain Leader for many years to guide society to a better mode of thinking). 

I'm not saying that is the way to govern, but there were some good thoughts in the books.  First, that people can act independently towards a common goal. Second, that the mind interprets outside stimuli in ways that may or may not be accurate.  Third, (and my favorite) that representations of reality are not themselves reality.  In other words, a map is not the actual place; an image is not the thing itself. 

Color is creation of our mind, for example.  In physics, there are many frequencies.  We humans have learned to sense some and we interpret those frequencies internally as "color".  Some animals have very limited ability to do that and "see" only a couple.  Some interpret higher or lower frequencies as "color" to their advantage

But Null-A offers some interesting ways to examine reality.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!