Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?

Started by Greatest I am, July 25, 2019, 03:49:55 PM

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Baruch

Quote from: Greatest I am on July 29, 2019, 09:18:59 AM
We are instinctively tribal and seek cohesion, unless as you indicate, one has a mental problem.

I see putting that cohesive desire as harmful when one become a thoughtless sheeple who will put his moral sense aside to follow something stupid or immoral in the tribes ideology. Like talking serpents and donkeys are real and a genocidal god is somehow a good dod.

Strange that you think that thieves want to be victims of thievery.

Regards
DL

You don't get the irony of the traditional saying ... "honor among thieves" ... as Admiral Yamamoto said after Pearl Harbor ... "even robbers fear walking home at night".  Yes, cohesion is good, except for tribalism (a big negative).  It is the sociopaths who are the heroes, but only in small doses.  We can't survive a new traitor like George Washington every generation.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

Quote from: Greatest I am on July 29, 2019, 09:21:31 AM
Do girls and women have a good reason to be angry?

Regards
DL

In my experience.  Every 28 days.  Men have reasons to be angry too.  Achieving humility and equanimity are hard.  We are mostly arrogant and raving.

If you didn't follow my many thousand posts .... I don't support Feminism.  If men were gentlemen, the women would have no excuse, and their blame game would be up.  No danger of that.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Greatest I am

Quote from: Baruch on July 29, 2019, 12:06:22 PM
You don't get the irony of the traditional saying ... "honor among thieves" ... as Admiral Yamamoto said after Pearl Harbor ... "even robbers fear walking home at night".  Yes, cohesion is good, except for tribalism (a big negative).  It is the sociopaths who are the heroes, but only in small doses.  We can't survive a new traitor like George Washington every generation.

Our instincts do not seem to mind us being tribal, especially since we are the weakest and most insecure animal on the planet.

I will say that we should apply our tribalism to a global tribe and not a local tribe since we are all collectively screwing up our eco system and have to ignore borders if we are to get ahead of what we are doing wrong.

Would you be alive if not tribal?

I doubt it. As Socrates asked, who will make your shoes?

Regards
DL

Greatest I am

Quote from: Baruch on July 29, 2019, 12:09:04 PM
In my experience.  Every 28 days.  Men have reasons to be angry too.  Achieving humility and equanimity are hard.  We are mostly arrogant and raving.

If you didn't follow my many thousand posts .... I don't support Feminism.  If men were gentlemen, the women would have no excuse, and their blame game would be up.  No danger of that.

I agree, and men are no longer gentlemen, if we ever were.

Real men always put women and children ahead of themselves. I do allow for a few exceptions depending on the wishes of women.

Regards
DL

Baruch

Quote from: Greatest I am on July 29, 2019, 03:24:30 PM
Our instincts do not seem to mind us being tribal, especially since we are the weakest and most insecure animal on the planet.

I will say that we should apply our tribalism to a global tribe and not a local tribe since we are all collectively screwing up our eco system and have to ignore borders if we are to get ahead of what we are doing wrong.

Would you be alive if not tribal?

I doubt it. As Socrates asked, who will make your shoes?

Regards
DL

The biggest enemy of man, isn't nature ... not mineral, plant or animal.  The biggest enemy is man.  The tribe and mob rule (democracy) killed Socrates and destroyed Athens.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Unbeliever

God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Baruch

Quote from: Unbeliever on July 30, 2019, 01:51:09 PM
"We have met the enemy, and he is us."

There is no human solution to this problem, other than extinction.  Pogo from the 70s was talking about the Vietnam War.  Nothing has changed.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Unbeliever

I asked the hot dog vendor to make me one with everything, but he was out of mustard. Just my luck...
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Greatest I am

Quote from: Baruch on July 29, 2019, 08:27:41 PM
The biggest enemy of man, isn't nature ... not mineral, plant or animal.  The biggest enemy is man.  The tribe and mob rule (democracy) killed Socrates and destroyed Athens.

As the top predator on the planet, it is not surprising that we are our biggest enemy. We are basically our only enemy.

Tell us though, should the minority rule or the majority?

You do not seem to like that the majority does. Describe how a minority rule system would work. At first blush, that sounds like a tyranny. I doubt that that is what you would recommend so tell us your thoughts.

Regards
DL

Unbeliever

In the U.S. we have a minority of wealthy people who rule, however much we like to think "the people" are in charge.
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Greatest I am

Quote from: Unbeliever on July 31, 2019, 02:26:55 PM
In the U.S. we have a minority of wealthy people who rule, however much we like to think "the people" are in charge.

Going through life willfully believing a lie is natural to a Christian nation.

Regards
DL

Unbeliever

Yeah, the U.S. is based on the profoundly Christian principles of genocide and slavery.
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Baruch

Quote from: Greatest I am on July 31, 2019, 01:50:53 PM
As the top predator on the planet, it is not surprising that we are our biggest enemy. We are basically our only enemy.

Tell us though, should the minority rule or the majority?

You do not seem to like that the majority does. Describe how a minority rule system would work. At first blush, that sounds like a tyranny. I doubt that that is what you would recommend so tell us your thoughts.

Regards
DL

I am in favor of leadership not rule.  If you still have French culture, I would expect you to support that.  Anyone who wants me to follow them, has to convince me first and then reconvince me on an ongoing basis.  Unfortunately, given that politics is too important to be done honestly and fairly, that isn't the politics we practice.  For us, the end justifies the means, and the ends are grossly materialistic and egotistical.  So tyranny both ways.  The ancient Greek analysis was missing Machiavelli, so Plato and Aristotle are wrong.

The majority BTW is wrong almost all the time.  So is the minority.  When something new happens, it is supported by a minority of "one" and they are right.  The mob are right to be suspicious however, in that most individual geniuses are really just maniacs.  Basically a "broken clock is right twice a day" kind of thing.  Occasionally the maniac happens to be right (statistics).
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

Quote from: Unbeliever on July 31, 2019, 02:26:55 PM
In the U.S. we have a minority of wealthy people who rule, however much we like to think "the people" are in charge.

"The people are in charge" has always been false and always will be.  The way you make a society function is to get the majority deluded enough to believe that.  We can't all be king.  As said about Americans once upon a time ... Americans all think they are wealthy, though they may be temporarily down on their luck.  We don't have the class culture of Europe or the caste culture of India.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

Quote from: Greatest I am on July 31, 2019, 02:41:14 PM
Going through life willfully believing a lie is natural to a Christian nation.

Regards
DL

The same for every nation.  The important thing is for the proles to not hear the snickering at Davos.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.