Author Topic: Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?  (Read 2401 times)

Re: Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2019, 12:17:16 PM »
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But the financials, and thus much of the GDP ... is fake.  You can end poverty, by people choosing to be happy with what they have, or we can kill the unhappy people.

All reality is a collective hunch and fiction. It is still all we have.

To your last. If you watch the documentary --- What the Health --- you will note how the government is knowingly reducing the life expectancy rate in the U.S.

They are killing people. Just not the ones you would target.

Have you had a personally change since I left? That last does not sound like the Baruch I knew.

We are both getting older --- but still.

Regards
DL

Re: Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2019, 12:32:38 PM »
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Your first is correct, but you seem to not recognize that our system are based on waste and the incompetent money mangers spend all they have and to an economy, that is great as then the spent cash can have the value added attached to it and that is what profits the whole system.

"taxing the rich only pushes them to move their money to other countries."

Then you boycott their products and end their citizenship. No country should increase the poverty levels to keep such filth in their country. That would be putting greed ahead of morality.

"you need low paying jobs"

Sure, but not lower than about $ 15. as an economy should want to produce tax payers and not tax takers who are just make work projects for governments who just love to increase the dependence of the people on a bigger government.

Regards
DL



Well there is incompetence everywhere - a lot of incompetent consumers for instance. You can't make laws against incompetence. The market generally does that - personal and business bankruptcies, economic recessions, and so on. But it seems that you want to legislate that, which in MHO, is a none starter.

On a side note: the $15 minimum wage is arbitrary, not market driven, and as such, involves many negative effects that most people like to ignore.

Re: Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2019, 01:06:18 PM »
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Well there is incompetence everywhere - a lot of incompetent consumers for instance. You can't make laws against incompetence. The market generally does that - personal and business bankruptcies, economic recessions, and so on. But it seems that you want to legislate that, which in MHO, is a none starter.

On a side note: the $15 minimum wage is arbitrary, not market driven, and as such, involves many negative effects that most people like to ignore.

While providing a better climate for workers which many want to ignore. Look at the benefits Washington gained from raising their minimum wage.

Incompetence will always exist and thus can be ignored as that is just people competing to be the fittest and we should not mess with that evolution and let the better and more competent rise to the top.

Regards
DL



Offline Baruch

Re: Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?
« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2019, 01:14:30 PM »
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I have missed your view buddy.

I have been busy getting banned from intolerant places.
On straight political posts, I like to get back to these less religious haunts.

Knowing your usual better than most moral thinking, I reject you last.

Regards
DL

My rhetoric has moved on, based on goings on.  Also I am now retired and in the throws of moving.  And of course while my rhetoric might be impassioned, and thus sincere, it doesn't necessarily represent my considered viewpoint ;-)
« Last Edit: July 26, 2019, 01:22:14 PM by Baruch »
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Baruch

Re: Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?
« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2019, 01:18:47 PM »
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Slavery may be the ultimate security and our selfish gene seems to know it.
At one time, that was true, but today it is not.
As a historian, you might not agree.

Regards
DL

Recent rhetoric (not mine) convinced me.  In modern society, feminism means the end of marriage and parenting.  Women want the biggest and wealthiest sugar daddy.  And now the government has become that.  Probably started with Oswald's Russian wife having a crush on JFK (one reason why Oswald shot JFK).  Ordinary men, not billionaires, can't compete with the government as UberHusband and UberFather.  Not even Uber can compete with that!

So yes, women who are naturally dependent, because of biology, have shifted their dependency in a very negative way.  They all want to be in the Sultan's harem.  Mustafa down in the souk can't satisfy the high maintenance creatures.  So yes, history is still important, particularly the last 50 years.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Baruch

Re: Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?
« Reply #20 on: July 26, 2019, 01:20:19 PM »
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While providing a better climate for workers which many want to ignore. Look at the benefits Washington gained from raising their minimum wage.

Incompetence will always exist and thus can be ignored as that is just people competing to be the fittest and we should not mess with that evolution and let the better and more competent rise to the top.

Regards
DL

It is a conspiracy theory that CIA runs the illegal drug business.  It is a conspiracy theory that the government is behind the opioid epidemic.  Both of those are probably false.  But one or both might be true.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?
« Reply #21 on: July 26, 2019, 01:24:58 PM »
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My rhetoric has moved on, based on goings on.  Also I am now retired and in the throws of moving.  And of course while my rhetoric might be impassioned, and thus sincere, it doesn't necessarily represent my considered viewpoint.

I do not have that ability but hen I see your mind as more complicated then mine. You are a specificist while I am a generalist. You retain data while I only remember the logic and reason trail that produced the message.

I have read tons of books and kept the messages or wisdom while I have no clue as to who said what.

Nice that you have retired. I thought we were about the same age but your a duckling compared to me, age wise.

Regards
DL

Re: Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?
« Reply #22 on: July 26, 2019, 01:25:49 PM »
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But the financials, and thus much of the GDP ... is fake.  You can end poverty, by people choosing to be happy with what they have, or we can kill the unhappy people.

So, we could end world hunger by just telling everyone to choose to eat, or we can kill the hungry people.
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"An experiment is a question which science poses to Nature, and a measurement is the recording of Nature's answer."
Max Planck, Scientific Autobiography and Other Papers (1949)

Offline Baruch

Re: Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?
« Reply #23 on: July 26, 2019, 01:29:08 PM »
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So, we could end world hunger by just telling everyone to choose to eat, or we can kill the hungry people.

No, kill two birds with one stone.  "A Modest Proposal" outlined this 300 years ago.  Breed and eat the poor.  Nothing immoral about cannibalism.  And maybe we are the aliens with the "cookbook".

Food doesn't grow itself.  If you grow your own food, good for you.  Otherwise, like me, you are just a parasite on some hardworking farmer/rancher/fisherman.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?
« Reply #24 on: July 26, 2019, 01:31:05 PM »
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Recent rhetoric (not mine) convinced me.  In modern society, feminism means the end of marriage and parenting.  Women want the biggest and wealthiest sugar daddy.  And now the government has become that.  Probably started with Oswald's Russian wife having a crush on JFK (one reason why Oswald shot JFK).  Ordinary men, not billionaires, can't compete with the government as UberHusband and UberFather.  Not even Uber can compete with that!

So yes, women who are naturally dependent, because of biology, have shifted their dependency in a very negative way.  They all want to be in the Sultan's harem.  Mustafa down in the souk can't satisfy the high maintenance creatures.  So yes, history is still important, particularly the last 50 years.

I think you blame the wrong gender for the shift to state care of single parent women.

If you watch the professor who put --- The Demise of Guys --- together, you might agree that it is us not training our boys to be men that has cause the reality that now we are living in a world where 50% of all households are manned by single women and that most deadbeat dads are jerking off to porn in their parents basements.

Talk about manhood training.

Regards
DL

Re: Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?
« Reply #25 on: July 26, 2019, 01:37:30 PM »
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No, kill two birds with one stone.  "A Modest Proposal" outlined this 300 years ago.  Breed and eat the poor.  Nothing immoral about cannibalism.  And maybe we are the aliens with the "cookbook".

Food doesn't grow itself.  If you grow your own food, good for you.  Otherwise, like me, you are just a parasite on some hardworking farmer/rancher/fisherman.
So, we become Moorlocks, huh?
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"An experiment is a question which science poses to Nature, and a measurement is the recording of Nature's answer."
Max Planck, Scientific Autobiography and Other Papers (1949)

Re: Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?
« Reply #26 on: July 26, 2019, 01:38:33 PM »
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It is a conspiracy theory that CIA runs the illegal drug business.  It is a conspiracy theory that the government is behind the opioid epidemic.  Both of those are probably false.  But one or both might be true.

I read a RCMP report years ago when deciding and failing to have Cannabis legalized, that showed that a lot of the drug king pins were governments.

Why, for instance, is the U.S. so against legalization, while Cannabis has been California's highest paying cash crop for better than 80 years now, even while every major intellectual report has pointed to legalization as a way to reduce harm.

The dame is happening with all psychotropic drugs.

Their are too many governments, including the U.S., that want drug lords out there so that they might use them for pay off as well as dirty deeds.

Read any bio from ex drug enforcement people and see how they get impeded by state when they get too close to one of their dirty friends.

Regards
DL
 

Offline Baruch

Re: Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?
« Reply #27 on: July 26, 2019, 01:51:04 PM »
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I do not have that ability but hen I see your mind as more complicated then mine. You are a specificist while I am a generalist. You retain data while I only remember the logic and reason trail that produced the message.

I have read tons of books and kept the messages or wisdom while I have no clue as to who said what.

Nice that you have retired. I thought we were about the same age but your a duckling compared to me, age wise.

Regards
DL

I am of an age, where getting thru the day gets harder every day.  Moving to where my daughter lives, Farmington NM.  Will ask the native spirits to protect you.  I will ask big drunk Navaho men to protect me ;-)

Nearer after the move, to Moab, where Area 51 moved too, if I meet any aliens, shall I ask them about G-d for you? ;-))  Seen the recent news of Close Encounters by the USN?  Maybe they can teach me to jam.  I really need more music in my life!

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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Baruch

Re: Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?
« Reply #28 on: July 26, 2019, 01:52:28 PM »
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I think you blame the wrong gender for the shift to state care of single parent women.

If you watch the professor who put --- The Demise of Guys --- together, you might agree that it is us not training our boys to be men that has cause the reality that now we are living in a world where 50% of all households are manned by single women and that most deadbeat dads are jerking off to porn in their parents basements.

Talk about manhood training.

Regards
DL

i agree with Jordan Peterson.  But no matter what, women rule the world, and bitch endlessly about it.
πŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽŒπŽ€πŽπŽŽπŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€πŽŸπŽπŽœπŽœπŽŸπŽπŽ€πŽπŽ‰πŽ€πŽ€πŽšπŽ€
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Baruch

Re: Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?
« Reply #29 on: July 26, 2019, 01:53:53 PM »
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So, we become Moorlocks, huh?

No, you and I are Eloi ... the Trumps etc are the Morlocks.  Time Machine got the looks backward, the Morlocks are the beautiful people.

Two degrees of separation between myself and Carl Sagan.  Attended a public Mars Exploration conference in Boulder CO, with my Ex, and the star speaker was Sagan.  My Ex fell asleep during his presentation.  And back then circa 1985, I was one of the first financial contributors to SETI.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2019, 02:36:44 PM by Baruch »
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

 

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