Author Topic: 10 Scientific Reasons Why Our Solar System Is Really Weird  (Read 1004 times)

10 Scientific Reasons Why Our Solar System Is Really Weird
« on: July 21, 2019, 06:46:26 PM »
The Rare Earth hypothesis is looking stronger all the time.


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"It is not God that is worshipped but the group or authority that claims to speak in His name. Sin becomes disobedience to authority not violation of integrity."
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Offline Hydra009

Re: 10 Scientific Reasons Why Our Solar System Is Really Weird
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2019, 08:12:26 PM »
A small fraction times trillions is still a pretty big number.

Re: 10 Scientific Reasons Why Our Solar System Is Really Weird
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2019, 02:09:46 PM »
Might depend on just how small the fraction is, and that's what we don't know. I can't believe in ETI until at least some kind of evidence comes in to support the hypothesis. Like God: no evidence, no belief.
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"It is not God that is worshipped but the group or authority that claims to speak in His name. Sin becomes disobedience to authority not violation of integrity."
Radhakrishnan, Sir Sarvepalli

Offline Hydra009

Re: 10 Scientific Reasons Why Our Solar System Is Really Weird
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2019, 02:17:13 PM »
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Might depend on just how small the fraction is, and that's what we don't know. I can't believe in ETI until at least some kind of evidence comes in to support the hypothesis. Like God: no evidence, no belief.
Of course.  No one is saying otherwise.

Though the universe being empty of life except for Earth would be a bit like being on a small island and venturing out and finding no other life on the entire planet.

Re: 10 Scientific Reasons Why Our Solar System Is Really Weird
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2019, 09:38:16 PM »
You can pool knowledge, but you can't pool ignorance. We're simply too ignorant to form any meaningful estimate of how likely extraterrestrial life or intelligence are.

When asked his "gut feel" Carl Sagan replied that he tries not to think with his gut. When asked his hypothesis of why rocks in mountains have embedded seashells, Thomas Jefferson responded that "I don't know" is a more accurate answer than offering speculation without any reason for the speculation.

Except for the folks who know for certain they've gotten an alien abduction probe, I think we're in the position where Sagan's and Jefferson's advice is sage.
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Offline Baruch

Re: 10 Scientific Reasons Why Our Solar System Is Really Weird
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2019, 08:09:20 AM »
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You can pool knowledge, but you can't pool ignorance. We're simply too ignorant to form any meaningful estimate of how likely extraterrestrial life or intelligence are.

When asked his "gut feel" Carl Sagan replied that he tries not to think with his gut. When asked his hypothesis of why rocks in mountains have embedded seashells, Thomas Jefferson responded that "I don't know" is a more accurate answer than offering speculation without any reason for the speculation.

Except for the folks who know for certain they've gotten an alien abduction probe, I think we're in the position where Sagan's and Jefferson's advice is sage.

Jefferson did fail at ... he didn't believe it possible that meteorites (the rocks) came from outer space.  He thought them terrestrial.  So in that case he claimed knowledge illegitimately, and wrongly.
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Offline Cavebear

Re: 10 Scientific Reasons Why Our Solar System Is Really Weird
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2019, 08:27:06 AM »
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The Rare Earth hypothesis is looking stronger all the time.

Oddly, I've been learning the opposite lately.  The habitable zone of our own solar system is expanding to include some moons with planetary-generated heat (tidal friction for example).  And with more earth-like planets being discovered every year, I suspect life abounds. 

Not necessarily intelligent self-aware life (that's still "iffy"), but I bet pond scum is almost standard wherever conditions permit (and those are now multitudes).  Complex life (eukaryotes and other multi-cellular organisms) seems to have happened here rather easily, so why not most similar situations? 

After that, natural selection takes over anywhere.  I don't mean there would have to be reptiles and dinosaurs and mammals (though the basic patterns make sense) or even anything homonid.  Self-awareness might be a huge jump.

But given the ease of simple cells and the evolutionary pressures to live and reproduce at even the basic levels, and the number of planets out there with the right conditions, I suspect we are not alone. 

The more interesting question might be not "if" there are other intelligences but who can contact something else across spacetime in a way that is recognizable...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Cavebear

Re: 10 Scientific Reasons Why Our Solar System Is Really Weird
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2019, 08:29:20 AM »
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Might depend on just how small the fraction is, and that's what we don't know. I can't believe in ETI until at least some kind of evidence comes in to support the hypothesis. Like God: no evidence, no belief.

I agree, but give some attention to the likelihood through quantity of sheer numbers.  And no, I don't think we have been visited.  It might be just too difficult.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Cavebear

Re: 10 Scientific Reasons Why Our Solar System Is Really Weird
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2019, 08:30:34 AM »
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You can pool knowledge, but you can't pool ignorance.

My apologies, but tell that to Trump, LOL!
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Re: 10 Scientific Reasons Why Our Solar System Is Really Weird
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2019, 09:50:54 AM »
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A small fraction times trillions is still a pretty big number.

Back in the 50's - I was a young rooster back then - Enrico Fermi made that calculation, and concluded the earth should have been visited a long time ago, many times over. So he shouted in the middle of the cafeteria of the Los Alamos National Laboratory, "Where are they? Where is everybody?" There's also the theory that if aliens know we exist, they would want to kill us. But also if we know they exist we would want to kill them. So the best policy is to shut up and pretend we don't exist. Hence the GREAT SILENCE.

Offline Cavebear

Re: 10 Scientific Reasons Why Our Solar System Is Really Weird
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2019, 11:40:54 AM »
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Back in the 50's - I was a young rooster back then - Enrico Fermi made that calculation, and concluded the earth should have been visited a long time ago, many times over. So he shouted in the middle of the cafeteria of the Los Alamos National Laboratory, "Where are they? Where is everybody?" There's also the theory that if aliens know we exist, they would want to kill us. But also if we know they exist we would want to kill them. So the best policy is to shut up and pretend we don't exist. Hence the GREAT SILENCE.

All great scientists seem to fins a really bad idea and defend it to their deaths.  The idea that we should have been visited by aliens by know is one of those.  There are sevela objects that come easily to mind.

1.  Non interference.  IOW, don't bother any planet with at least pond scum that can't talk "interstellar" yet.
2.  Hide while observing.  We can fool ducks with camoflauge.  "They" could do it better.
3.  Hide in open sight.  I might be an alien observing all of you for trends toward insterstellar threats.
4.  We're the first.  Someone has to to be.
5.  We're the last.  And stupidest.  Someone has to be.
6.  No one found us.  It's a VERY big Universe.
7.  Everyone creates their own universe where they are alone.  Proof me wrong.
8.  The Borg or the Q killed all the others and do (or do not) know about us yet.
9.  They read our superhero comic books and scared to death of us.  Don't laugh, that was a comic book plot once.
10.  We are on the wrong channel.  1420 to 1720 MHzis the interstellar PBS channel and no one "out there" actually watches it.

I could go on...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: 10 Scientific Reasons Why Our Solar System Is Really Weird
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2019, 12:05:48 PM »
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Back in the 50's - I was a young rooster back then - Enrico Fermi made that calculation, and concluded the earth should have been visited a long time ago, many times over. So he shouted in the middle of the cafeteria of the Los Alamos National Laboratory, "Where are they? Where is everybody?" There's also the theory that if aliens know we exist, they would want to kill us. But also if we know they exist we would want to kill them. So the best policy is to shut up and pretend we don't exist. Hence the GREAT SILENCE.

When the first pulsar signal was detected in ... 1969? ... that was the plan.  It took awhile to realize it was natural.
Zampa xiquihto.  Amo nimitzcuamachilia.
Say it again.  I don't understand you.

Offline Baruch

Re: 10 Scientific Reasons Why Our Solar System Is Really Weird
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2019, 12:07:04 PM »
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All great scientists seem to fins a really bad idea and defend it to their deaths.  The idea that we should have been visited by aliens by know is one of those.  There are sevela objects that come easily to mind.

1.  Non interference.  IOW, don't bother any planet with at least pond scum that can't talk "interstellar" yet.
2.  Hide while observing.  We can fool ducks with camoflauge.  "They" could do it better.
3.  Hide in open sight.  I might be an alien observing all of you for trends toward insterstellar threats.
4.  We're the first.  Someone has to to be.
5.  We're the last.  And stupidest.  Someone has to be.
6.  No one found us.  It's a VERY big Universe.
7.  Everyone creates their own universe where they are alone.  Proof me wrong.
8.  The Borg or the Q killed all the others and do (or do not) know about us yet.
9.  They read our superhero comic books and scared to death of us.  Don't laugh, that was a comic book plot once.
10.  We are on the wrong channel.  1420 to 1720 MHzis the interstellar PBS channel and no one "out there" actually watches it.

I could go on...

Galactic Dems killed Galactic PBS (loss of pledges).  Same as on Earth.
Zampa xiquihto.  Amo nimitzcuamachilia.
Say it again.  I don't understand you.

Re: 10 Scientific Reasons Why Our Solar System Is Really Weird
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2019, 03:32:09 PM »
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And with more earth-like planets being discovered every year, I suspect life abounds. 


Keep in mind that "earth-like" doesn't really mean "like the Earth," it just means not a gas giant, like those in the outer system: Mercury, Venus and Mars would be considered "earth-like" if they were in another system, but they're very little like our watery, green planet.
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"It is not God that is worshipped but the group or authority that claims to speak in His name. Sin becomes disobedience to authority not violation of integrity."
Radhakrishnan, Sir Sarvepalli

Re: 10 Scientific Reasons Why Our Solar System Is Really Weird
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2019, 03:34:43 PM »
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I agree, but give some attention to the likelihood through quantity of sheer numbers.  And no, I don't think we have been visited.  It might be just too difficult.

Yeah, I think it's much harder to travel through that immense void than most people think. Both in terms of time and energy, it seems just too hard for anything to get from star to star without really extreme motivation.
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"It is not God that is worshipped but the group or authority that claims to speak in His name. Sin becomes disobedience to authority not violation of integrity."
Radhakrishnan, Sir Sarvepalli

 

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