Author Topic: Atheists nicer to Christians than vice versa  (Read 4042 times)

Re: Atheists nicer to Christians than vice versa
« Reply #60 on: July 05, 2019, 08:54:24 PM »
You do understand that it is possible to despise an ideology, without despising individuals, right?

Generally, yes, most people can despise a belief without despising believers. However, I do agree with Baruch to some extent. I have seen some nasty stuff from some atheists on YouTube. For example, creationist Kent Hovind was ridiculed by some atheists who sang "you're a fucktard" to him. I don't approve of that kind of invective from anybody against anybody. I think there are more intelligent ways to get a point across.

Re: Atheists nicer to Christians than vice versa
« Reply #61 on: July 05, 2019, 08:59:21 PM »
Generally, yes, most people can despise a belief without despising believers. However, I do agree with Baruch to some extent. I have seen some nasty stuff from some atheists on YouTube. For example, creationist Kent Hovind was ridiculed by some atheists who sang "you're a fucktard" to him. I don't approve of that kind of invective from anybody against anybody. I think there are more intelligent ways to get a point across.

Kent deserves no sympathy. He's a charlatan. He lies, and he knows it.
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville

Re: Atheists nicer to Christians than vice versa
« Reply #62 on: July 05, 2019, 09:03:57 PM »
It's easier to be an asshole to someone on the internet, especially when you have anonymity. When face-to-face, they have to play nice to avoid social consequences.

I have no doubt that many people I've disagreed with online (and offline) would categorize me as one of those "assholes," and many of them have been atheists. I suppose it's human nature to become angry with people who disagree with us especially if they don't share our opinion on some issue we consider to be very important.

And that may be why atheists normally treat Christians better than Christians treat atheists. Since Christians hold many beliefs that are very important to them, and atheists find those beliefs to be hard to believe and even stupid, Christians have more reasons to despise atheists than atheists have reasons to despise Christians.

Re: Atheists nicer to Christians than vice versa
« Reply #63 on: July 05, 2019, 09:11:30 PM »
I generally agree that mocking Christians like that is wrong, but Kent is a special case. He lies about his credentials and his experience. He was caught and served time for tax fraud, but lies about that too. He knowingly lies about evolution, despite having been corrected many times. His business is in selling lies. Even other science-denying Christians have distanced themselves from him. Calling him a fucktard is putting it mildly.
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville

Re: Atheists nicer to Christians than vice versa
« Reply #64 on: July 05, 2019, 09:11:55 PM »
Kind of like love the sinner hate the sin, really

I try to look at it that way. I used to be a Christian, and I know how tough it can be when skeptics ridicule you. I wish atheists would keep in mind that many Christians are victims of their faith and should be helped and not hurt.

Re: Atheists nicer to Christians than vice versa
« Reply #65 on: July 05, 2019, 09:21:18 PM »
I generally agree that mocking Christians like that is wrong, but Kent is a special case. He lies about his credentials and his experience. He was caught and served time for tax fraud, but lies about that too. He knowingly lies about evolution, despite having been corrected many times. His business is in selling lies. Even other science-denying Christians have distanced themselves from him. Calling him a fucktard is putting it mildly.

My approach would be to document and report what Hovind has said that isn't true and how his conclusions may not follow from his premises even if his premises were true. That's the tried and tested way philosophers have scrutinized arguments since the time of Aristotle. Calling somebody a "fucktard" is much more recent, and its effectiveness has yet to be determined. ;)

Re: Atheists nicer to Christians than vice versa
« Reply #66 on: July 05, 2019, 09:46:20 PM »
My approach would be to document and report what Hovind has said that isn't true and how his conclusions may not follow from his premises even if his premises were true. That's the tried and tested way philosophers have scrutinized arguments since the time of Aristotle. Calling somebody a "fucktard" is much more recent, and its effectiveness has yet to be determined. ;)

That has been done before as well. I'd recommend the "debate" videos AronRa made when Kent was dumb enough to accept a back and forth debate format. He usually sticks to the live debate format, where he can rapid fire too many lies to keep up with, and no one can fact check him. Kent removed most of his videos from the debate, for some mysterious reason I can never guess, but Aron still has his responses up. It becomes apparent in the first two seconds just how outclassed Kent is on the subject of evolution and biology.
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville

Re: Atheists nicer to Christians than vice versa
« Reply #67 on: July 05, 2019, 10:37:20 PM »
That has been done before as well. I'd recommend the "debate" videos AronRa made when Kent was dumb enough to accept a back and forth debate format. He usually sticks to the live debate format, where he can rapid fire too many lies to keep up with, and no one can fact check him. Kent removed most of his videos from the debate, for some mysterious reason I can never guess, but Aron still has his responses up. It becomes apparent in the first two seconds just how outclassed Kent is on the subject of evolution and biology.

If you think Kent Hovind is an "interesting" debater, then check out AronRa vs Matt Slick | Bible Thumping Wingnut Show. I used to debate on Matt Slick's forum, and the place was a nuthouse. Slick has his moderators label people as atheists so that he can confine them to one subsection of his forum. Obviously Slick realizes he needs to do so because atheists will make mincemeat out of Christian beliefs if they have freedom to debate them openly, and that's after he claims he loves to debate atheists!

AronRa vs Matt Slick | Bible Thumping Wingnut Show

Offline Baruch

Re: Atheists nicer to Christians than vice versa
« Reply #68 on: July 06, 2019, 01:11:01 AM »
Generally, yes, most people can despise a belief without despising believers. However, I do agree with Baruch to some extent. I have seen some nasty stuff from some atheists on YouTube. For example, creationist Kent Hovind was ridiculed by some atheists who sang "you're a fucktard" to him. I don't approve of that kind of invective from anybody against anybody. I think there are more intelligent ways to get a point across.

Hovind would count as an anti-theist.  Not all atheists are anti-theists.  Not all theists are anti-atheists.  I for one.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Offline Baruch

Re: Atheists nicer to Christians than vice versa
« Reply #69 on: July 06, 2019, 01:13:35 AM »
Pfft. The day Christianity dies is the day we can finally have intelligent debates on morality, rather than appealing to an iron age book of fairytales.

None of the great religions will die anytime soon.  Probably when humanity dies.  Because they are tied to archetypes in the human psyche.  They change form, but the substance meets some basic need.  There are no intelligent debates (humans aren't intelligent).  And there is no morality.  Not that I want to kill anyone.  But if I do want to kill someone, a rule book won't matter.  Thus a waste of time.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Offline Baruch

Re: Atheists nicer to Christians than vice versa
« Reply #70 on: July 06, 2019, 01:18:21 AM »
If the world were as you say it is, we would have total anarchy and chaos. You set the bar so high that no one could possibly measure up. That's a thing Christian fundamentalists like to do, but it seems out of place coming from you.

Order is illusion.  Attempts to create order are tyranny.  Human reality is anarchy (not chaos).  But nature is chaos (pseudorandom).

I don't set any bar.  Do you?  Yes, some people, some Christians are judgmental.  Per Gospel, those Christians are all going to Hell.  Per Dante, perhaps all Popes are in Hell.

People do what they do.  Neither good nor bad.  But like or dislike.  And we aren't in agreement on like vs dislike.  Just a fact, not a judgement.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2019, 01:29:09 AM by Baruch »
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Offline Baruch

Re: Atheists nicer to Christians than vice versa
« Reply #71 on: July 06, 2019, 01:23:22 AM »
Is what you're saying here hyperbole not to be taken literally? I've noticed that many people tend to hold these kinds of views of some groups if they feel threatened by changes those groups want. Atheists, in particular, if they openly criticize religions like Christianity, are seen as intolerant and dangerous. Many people fear that if Christianity goes, then so does morality.

A false fear.  Christianity has nothing to do with morality.  It has to do with norms of Western behavior.  Mega-ethnic-culture.  And people don't like their mega-ethnic-culture challenged.  The West has undergone tremendous change in 500 years.  Not necessarily progress or regress (that would be judging).  And change happens so much faster now.  So people suffer disorientation and anxiety.  Future Shock.

So I am neutral on mega-ethnic-culture in the long run.  I am multicultural.  But it does disturb me, for self hating Westerners to completely discard the whole of Western culture … because they have a misplaced desire to kill their ancestors.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Offline Baruch

Re: Atheists nicer to Christians than vice versa
« Reply #72 on: July 06, 2019, 01:25:50 AM »
Is what you're saying here hyperbole not to be taken literally? I've noticed that many people tend to hold these kinds of views of some groups if they feel threatened by changes those groups want. Atheists, in particular, if they openly criticize religions like Christianity, are seen as intolerant and dangerous. Many people fear that if Christianity goes, then so does morality.

That was hyperbole.  And the usual posters know it, because they know me.  But I get tired of their … hyperbole ;-)

In the larger picture, humans are aggressive.  Even murderous.  So no matter what their POV, they want in their guts, to do "bad" things about it.  Solipcism … make the world into their own image, so they are more comfortable.  This is a huge trope in theology etc … Satanic.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2019, 01:30:34 AM by Baruch »
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Re: Atheists nicer to Christians than vice versa
« Reply #73 on: July 06, 2019, 09:43:25 AM »
Hovind would count as an anti-theist.

Actually, Kent Hovind is a Christian, young-earth creationist. He's no anti-theist.

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There are no intelligent debates (humans aren't intelligent). 

I disagree with that. Both humans and their debates can be very intelligent. Don't you consider yourself to be intelligent?

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And there is no morality.

If by "morality" you mean judging right from wrong and doing what should be done and avoiding what should not be done, I think there's much morality. People are basically good. Otherwise, we could not survive.

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Christianity has nothing to do with morality.

Then I wonder what the Ten Commandments and the Sermon on the Mount are all about.

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In the larger picture, humans are aggressive.  Even murderous.  So no matter what their POV, they want in their guts, to do "bad" things about it.  Solipcism … make the world into their own image, so they are more comfortable.  This is a huge trope in theology etc … Satanic.

Why do you have such a dim view of people? Have you been hurt by people?

Offline Baruch

Re: Atheists nicer to Christians than vice versa
« Reply #74 on: July 06, 2019, 06:01:15 PM »

Actually, Kent Hovind is a Christian, young-earth creationist. He's no anti-theist.


My mistake.  I misread the string.  But someone who does indiscriminate hate of religious people is anti-theist.

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I disagree with that. Both humans and their debates can be very intelligent. Don't you consider yourself to be intelligent?


I am justifiably misanthropic.  I despise all human beings equally … specifically I find all claims to human virtue (assuming "intelligent" is a virtue … which is an unjustifiable assumption) to be bollocks.

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If by "morality" you mean judging right from wrong and doing what should be done and avoiding what should not be done, I think there's much morality. People are basically good. Otherwise, we could not survive.


I respectfully disagree.

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Then I wonder what the Ten Commandments and the Sermon on the Mount are all about.


They are bullocks.

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Why do you have such a dim view of people? Have you been hurt by people?


I view people like I view zoo animals.  Sure I have been hurt, we all have.  That is because I am in the same cage with other animals.  I am not anti-animal, I am realist.  Tigers do what tigers do.  They aren't immoral when they eat Mowgli.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.