Author Topic: Could "the real god" convert you?  (Read 4704 times)

Offline Cavebear

Re: Could "the real god" convert you?
« Reply #90 on: August 08, 2019, 10:57:25 AM »
IF there was a real deity who could convince me that it WAS real,  I would have to accept.  Logic would require it.

Having said that, I think the idea is so remote as to fade into impossibility.

What would a deity do to prove ITSELF?  Well, flaming letters across the sky saying that Saturn will blow up in 3, 2, 1... (and it happens) would be impressive.  Maybe making the Moon suddenly pin.  But a sufficiently advanved species og mortal origins might be able to do those things too.

There is virtually nothing that a deity could do that would change my mind externally.  But there is ONE THING a deity could do.  It could reach into my brain and change my mind about ITS existence so that I didn't doubt ITS existence.

And even then (before the brain-change) it could be done by science some day.  But it wouldn't matter then.  I would BELIEVE and BE CONVINCED utterly completely and totally...  Then there would be a deity in my way of thinking.

But don't hold your breath waiting for THAT...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Cavebear

Re: Could "the real god" convert you?
« Reply #91 on: August 08, 2019, 11:09:01 AM »



It just struck me (this moment) absurdly funny that you had to produce a created image to convince us that some religious event was real, as evidence of its reality.  I guess I missed your original post, or I didn't think about the image at the time.

I mean, its not like a modern graphic of a cruxified Christ or Daniel In The Lions' Den itself is evidence of the veracity of the event even to a theist's mind (I hope).

So out of a generally sort of curiosity, may I ask what were you thinking at the time?
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Re: Could "the real god" convert you?
« Reply #92 on: August 08, 2019, 11:15:39 AM »
Huh, it's too bad. PR had an extreme right-wing POV. But nevertheless there are extreme left-wing POV's, which is tolerated. This is an atheist forum, and atheists of all political stripes should be welcomed. MHO.

Looks like it was for trolling and such: http://atheistforums.com/index.php?topic=5588.msg1251807#msg1251807

I don't so much mind that PR had different political opinions, but he was a major pain in the ass. Baruch and Munch have similar political opinions, but they don't get on my nerves nearly as much as he did. Some of PR's posts bordered on overt racism, which is what I previously assumed was the reasoning for his ban.
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville

Re: Could "the real god" convert you?
« Reply #93 on: August 08, 2019, 11:22:48 AM »
Looks like it was for trolling and such: http://atheistforums.com/index.php?topic=5588.msg1251807#msg1251807

I don't so much mind that PR had different political opinions, but he was a major pain in the ass. Baruch and Munch have similar political opinions, but they don't get on my nerves nearly as much as he did. Some of PR's posts bordered on overt racism, which is what I previously assumed was the reasoning for his ban.

Thanks for the info. If we were to apply the same standards, most of us would be banned...

Offline Cavebear

Re: Could "the real god" convert you?
« Reply #94 on: August 08, 2019, 11:36:01 AM »
Huh, it's too bad. PR had an extreme right-wing POV. But nevertheless there are extreme left-wing POV's, which is tolerated. This is an atheist forum, and atheists of all political stripes should be welcomed. MHO.

I think the difference was that PR really truly hated some groups of humans, and atheists, in general do not.  In my life, I have met some atheists (who were atheists by discussion and claims I could not deny) who were among some of the meanest people I ever met. 

Being an atheist doesn't mean you are ethical or not.  It just means you don't basically see a reason to think there is a deity of any sort.  And I (as many others here) am prepared to debate those atheists here and now on any topic. 

If a local shooter claims to be an atheist and shows evidence of it from past posts or discussions, I will accept that atheists can be wanton killers or even just plain mean people.

There is no rule that atheists have to be people who agree with me of any or all social issues.  I don't think that atheists are always right.  I just think they generally have the best approach to reality.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline SGOS

Re: Could "the real god" convert you?
« Reply #95 on: August 08, 2019, 12:00:19 PM »
Huh, it's too bad. PR had an extreme right-wing POV. But nevertheless there are extreme left-wing POV's, which is tolerated. This is an atheist forum, and atheists of all political stripes should be welcomed. MHO.
He was off the map with his views, but he wasn't a troll.  A troll is someone who tries to piss people off.  He offended many, but I never felt like that was his intention.  I think he was just trying to convert people, or in his view, to get us to "see the light."  I was mystified by his misguided dedication, but aside from his narrow minded views, I think he could have been quite likeable.  But I have to admit that for him, nothing was up for discussion.  Everything was a one way lecture through weird Utube videos.

Offline Cavebear

Re: Could "the real god" convert you?
« Reply #96 on: August 08, 2019, 12:41:59 PM »
He was off the map with his views, but he wasn't a troll.  A troll is someone who tries to piss people off.  He offended many, but I never felt like that was his intention.  I think he was just trying to convert people, or in his view, to get us to "see the light."  I was mystified by his misguided dedication, but aside from his narrow minded views, I think he could have been quite likeable.  But I have to admit that for him, nothing was up for discussion.  Everything was a one way lecture through weird Utube videos.

I think PR had some very extreme views and some of them crossed the boundaries of useful discussion.  I don't think he did it to deliberately annoy people, but he did do it because (sorry) he was a whack case.  One be a religious Hitler or an atheist Hitler, but either deserved banning.  I had no hesitation agreeing with the Mods about PR. 
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Re: Could "the real god" convert you?
« Reply #97 on: August 08, 2019, 12:47:15 PM »
I think the difference was that PR really truly hated some groups of humans, and atheists, in general do not.  In my life, I have met some atheists (who were atheists by discussion and claims I could not deny) who were among some of the meanest people I ever met. 

Being an atheist doesn't mean you are ethical or not.  It just means you don't basically see a reason to think there is a deity of any sort.  And I (as many others here) am prepared to debate those atheists here and now on any topic. 

If a local shooter claims to be an atheist and shows evidence of it from past posts or discussions, I will accept that atheists can be wanton killers or even just plain mean people.

There is no rule that atheists have to be people who agree with me of any or all social issues.  I don't think that atheists are always right.  I just think they generally have the best approach to reality.

When I joined this forum, 13 years now, this forum was populated by a majority of right-wing atheists. There are few of us from that time. It slowly changed, and I believe there are more atheists on the left posting now. Political trends change. But PR was a moderate in those days. So, go figure.

Offline Baruch

Re: Could "the real god" convert you?
« Reply #98 on: August 08, 2019, 01:05:39 PM »
OMG. You're sounding like PR. If you think college students are being brainwashed, you need to go back to college, because you know nothing.

The purpose of all education (of the under 23 age group) is brainwashing.  Often parents don't get the brainwashing of their children they think their tax money or tuition is paying for.  A problem since Plato's academy for leftist gay atheism ;-)
« Last Edit: August 08, 2019, 01:14:36 PM by Baruch »
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Offline Baruch

Re: Could "the real god" convert you?
« Reply #99 on: August 08, 2019, 01:07:34 PM »
Huh, it's too bad. PR had an extreme right-wing POV. But nevertheless there are extreme left-wing POV's, which is tolerated. This is an atheist forum, and atheists of all political stripes should be welcomed. MHO.

His posted videos, his lack of commentary on those videos, his vehemence ... were problematic.  But at some point he dissed the mods I suspect.  One can't get away with that.  Always cooperate with the mods.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Offline Baruch

Re: Could "the real god" convert you?
« Reply #100 on: August 08, 2019, 01:10:00 PM »
Thanks for the info. If we were to apply the same standards, most of us would be banned...

Correct.  The mania of old age wears many of us down.  We don't even have his email address.  So Munch and I (his friends of a sort) can't even contact him.  Un-personed by Lavrenty Beria.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2019, 01:15:54 PM by Baruch »
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Offline Baruch

Re: Could "the real god" convert you?
« Reply #101 on: August 08, 2019, 01:12:17 PM »
He was off the map with his views, but he wasn't a troll.  A troll is someone who tries to piss people off.  He offended many, but I never felt like that was his intention.  I think he was just trying to convert people, or in his view, to get us to "see the light."  I was mystified by his misguided dedication, but aside from his narrow minded views, I think he could have been quite likeable.  But I have to admit that for him, nothing was up for discussion.  Everything was a one way lecture through weird Utube videos.

He saw GB in existential crisis.  The ends justified the means.  Munch doesn't agree.  Neither do I.  Whatever happens in GB, they will survive somehow ;-)  And I don't see the US in existential crisis either ... just a lot of electioneering.  But it is fun to poke the dragons.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Offline Baruch

Re: Could "the real god" convert you?
« Reply #102 on: August 08, 2019, 01:14:09 PM »
When I joined this forum, 13 years now, this forum was populated by a majority of right-wing atheists. There are few of us from that time. It slowly changed, and I believe there are more atheists on the left posting now. Political trends change. But PR was a moderate in those days. So, go figure.

Hard to imagine.  I would have had to have taken a more Leftist POV had I been here then (been her 4 years).  I am a radical Centrist.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Re: Could "the real god" convert you?
« Reply #103 on: August 08, 2019, 02:49:41 PM »
So here's my take: as AF got more left-wingers, PR was pushed further to the right. So if he was banned on account of that, it's ALL your fault. Anyhoo, that's my theory, and I'm sticking with that...

Offline Cavebear

Re: Could "the real god" convert you?
« Reply #104 on: August 08, 2019, 04:17:48 PM »
When I joined this forum, 13 years now, this forum was populated by a majority of right-wing atheists. There are few of us from that time. It slowly changed, and I believe there are more atheists on the left posting now. Political trends change. But PR was a moderate in those days. So, go figure.

Well, I've known a couple "right-wing" atheists in my time.  But they were always considered "suspicious" and "gun nuts".  I do try to deal with differences so long as the discussion is among atheists.  In fact, that is mostly why I'm here.  I could discuss nearly any subject here elsewhere and not reveal that I'm an atheist.  But I have a deep desire to understand how my fellow atheists view certain topics.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!