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Could "the real god" convert you?

Started by Jagella, June 23, 2019, 12:10:07 PM

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josephpalazzo

Quote from: Simon Moon on August 07, 2019, 02:17:07 PM
According to Jordan Peterson, a 'real atheist' would be a murderer.

I wonder of that's what Baruch means?

Aren't we? We kill theists' arguments all the time...

Unbeliever

Yeah, we kill those arguments, but like zombies or Dr. Who, they keep coming back, in new guises and with higher levels of arrogance.
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

SGOS

Quote from: Simon Moon on August 07, 2019, 02:17:07 PM
According to Jordan Peterson, a 'real atheist' would be a murderer.
I'll bet he had to do some heavy duty thinking to come up with that.

drunkenshoe

Quote from: Baruch on August 07, 2019, 10:51:30 AM
Like "communism", real "atheism" has never been tried ;-))

Timon> "Gets them every time!"
"science is not about building a body of known 'facts'. ıt is a method for asking awkward questions and subjecting them to a reality-check, thus avoiding the human tendency to believe whatever makes us feel good." - tp

Simon Moon

Quote from: SGOS on August 07, 2019, 02:26:37 PM
I'll bet he had to do some heavy duty thinking to come up with that.

Just watch his discussion with Matt Dillahunty from about a year ago. Dillahunty's jaw, literally drops.

He also claims: that Nazi Germany was an example of secular humanism, one cannot quit smoking without a 'spiritual' experience, DMT experiences actually reflect some sort of reality (outside the brain), among other ridiculous statements.

I continually am shocked that he is considered some sort of intellectual.
And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence - Russell

Baruch

#65
Quote from: Simon Moon on August 07, 2019, 02:17:07 PM
According to Jordan Peterson, a 'real atheist' would be a murderer.

I wonder of that's what Baruch means?

No.  Some might argue that.  Peterson is being rhetorical ... as I often am, but I don't argue that way.  All humans are potential murderers.  I think Peterson and I agree on that.  Usually called original sin, but for me, it is biological/secular.  The idea that any cultural norm, theist or not, makes any difference vs the essentially evil nature of human beings, is naive.  Idealists don't believe in evil ... and from that can justify the notion of the "perfectibility" of human beings.  I absolutely deny this "perfectibility" just as I absolutely deny "progress".  But I won't deny the attractiveness of these religiously inspired political ideologies ;-)  It is good snake oil.  Arik promotes the same perfectibility, but on a different basis.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

Quote from: Unbeliever on August 07, 2019, 02:24:25 PM
Yeah, we kill those arguments, but like zombies or Dr. Who, they keep coming back, in new guises and with higher levels of arrogance.

Takes one asshole to know another ;-)  Virtue signal ... look at me, I am "secular Christ".
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

#67
Quote from: SGOS on August 07, 2019, 02:26:37 PM
I'll bet he had to do some heavy duty thinking to come up with that.

Peterson thinks a lot.  But he has never embraced theism.  That takes heart.  It is very hard, in a cruel world, to be theist, unless you accept that G-d isn't a nice guy.  Peterson and his family has suffered, but they haven't completed worked that thru yet.  In Jewish religion, one accepts that there is no "good news".
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

#68
Quote from: Simon Moon on August 07, 2019, 03:06:25 PM
Just watch his discussion with Matt Dillahunty from about a year ago. Dillahunty's jaw, literally drops.

He also claims: that Nazi Germany was an example of secular humanism, one cannot quit smoking without a 'spiritual' experience, DMT experiences actually reflect some sort of reality (outside the brain), among other ridiculous statements.

I continually am shocked that he is considered some sort of intellectual.

I watched that one too.  Dillahunty is overrated.  So is Peterson.  So is Harris.  Peterson has good comebacks against incompetent journalists.

Peterson is traumatized by 20th century totalitarianism.  That is a real thing, but I am not traumatized.  I can identify with evil, with villainy.  Most people can't do that, no matter what evil they do, they think they are saints.  Delusion is normal for people.

Again Peterson is a clinical psychologist, partly "depth" psychology.  People here completely dismiss clinical psychology.  They consider schizophrenia as a protected political class.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

Quote from: Simon Moon on July 03, 2019, 03:17:04 PM
Very good episode.

Interesting thing about the original Star Trek, but every episode (that I am aware of), that had an alien race that believe in a god, it ended up being a computer.

"For the World is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky", aliens live inside an asteroid like space ship. Their leader comunes with a god, that ends up being a computer.

"Return of the Archons", people on a planet are lead by a computer (Landru) they believe is a god. They live in a very repressed totalitarian society, except for 'the red hour'  when they are allowed to go wild.

"The Apple", people worship a computer that looks like Godzilla's head.

"The Paradise Syndrome", people worship an obelisk, with a computer underneath.

Maybe this all has to do with Gene Roddenberry being a deist, or possibly an atheist.

In Babylon 5, the Catholic Church was still running things in the background.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

Quote from: josephpalazzo on August 07, 2019, 11:06:10 AM
Here’s the real problem with god: If a god exists who is all-knowing, all-powerful and perfectly good, then the amount of horrific suffering in our world needs an explanation. Either this god isn’t smart enough to eliminate it, or isn’t powerful enough to eliminate it, or doesn’t care enough to eliminate it. The reason is that an all-knowing god would know how to eliminate it, an all-powerful god has the power to eliminate it, and a perfectly good god would want to eliminate it.

Greek ideals are a complete burlesque of Jewish values.  The NT is a burlesque of Judaism, hence Jewish rejection of it.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

Quote from: Mike Cl on August 07, 2019, 11:22:23 AM
Really?  What is 'real' atheism???

Hillary Clinton head in a jar ;-))

I made a joke.  You want me to justify it.  It is funny.  That is enough justification.  "not real communism" is a famous meme, and I took advantage of it.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

Quote from: Unbeliever on August 07, 2019, 02:19:48 PM
We'd better hope Peterson doesn't lose his belief in God, or we might have a real monster to deal with!

Peterson is metaphysical, not theistic.  His god is impersonal, somewhat like Harris.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Mike Cl

Quote from: Baruch on August 07, 2019, 04:27:12 PM
Hillary Clinton head in a jar ;-))

I made a joke.  You want me to justify it.  It is funny.  That is enough justification.  "not real communism" is a famous meme, and I took advantage of it.
Up to your normal standards of late. 
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Blackleaf

Quote from: Baruch on August 07, 2019, 04:28:28 PM
Peterson is metaphysical, not theistic.  His god is impersonal, somewhat like Harris.

You give Jordan Peterson far too much credit. He's made his living off of telling people what they like to hear, while being just vague enough about his own opinions that he could wiggle out of any controversies when necessary. Part of that strategy is appealing to Christian ideology, while attempting to keep just enough distance that one couldn't simply peg him as a Christian. Basically, he's a faker and a coward.
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville--