Author Topic: WTH ALABAMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  (Read 955 times)

Offline Baruch

Re: WTH ALABAMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #45 on: September 01, 2019, 08:18:28 AM »
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A bunch of new laws took effect here today. I believe that includes the one for this private police force.

Having said that, I am curious as to why this private police force would be different than a private police force at say Harvard or MIT? Assuming of course that the long standing private police forces at places like Harvard and MIT didn't end the Bill of Rights decades ago without my noticing.

Police force good, if civil service under Democratic machine politics aka NYC, Chicago ...

Personally I am opposed to private police forces.   And the militarization of the regular police force.  And capital seizure (aka robbery).
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline aitm

Re: WTH ALABAMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #46 on: September 01, 2019, 09:48:43 AM »
Nothing quite reinforces that belief that god will protect you like surrounding yourself with a small army.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Offline Baruch

Re: WTH ALABAMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #47 on: September 01, 2019, 05:58:20 PM »
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Nothing quite reinforces that belief that god will protect you like surrounding yourself with a small army.

How did that help JFK when the Secret Service fired the kill shot from behind?
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Cavebear

Re: WTH ALABAMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #48 on: September 03, 2019, 01:11:39 AM »
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A bunch of new laws took effect here today. I believe that includes the one for this private police force.

Having said that, I am curious as to why this private police force would be different than a private police force at say Harvard or MIT? Assuming of course that the long standing private police forces at places like Harvard and MIT didn't end the Bill of Rights decades ago without my noticing.

Because "private police forces" are not actually police with all the training that involves.  They are more "private security forces" with little law enforcement experience and a very focused "act first and worry about the consequences later" attitude.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline PopeyesPappy

Re: WTH ALABAMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #49 on: September 03, 2019, 07:39:47 AM »
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Because "private police forces" are not actually police with all the training that involves.  They are more "private security forces" with little law enforcement experience and a very focused "act first and worry about the consequences later" attitude.

Do you know how much or what kind of training these people will receive before starting to work? I don't, but I do know they will have to complete state certified training by the Peace Officers Standards and Training Commission and be trained on the proper use of a non-lethal weapon before starting to work. I don't necessarily see it as a bad thing if they receive less than your average city, county, or state cop either since many people believe one of the reasons today's police are so trigger happy is the training they receive.

None of that helps explain to me why allowing a church that operates a school with hundreds or thousands of students would be different than allowing a private non-church affiliated university like Harvard to do the same. Private police forces at universities have been a thing as long as I can remember, and I don't recall anyone bitching about them being a threat to the bill of rights. What's the difference?
Save a life. Adopt a Greyhound.


Offline Cavebear

Re: WTH ALABAMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #50 on: September 03, 2019, 08:20:09 AM »
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Do you know how much or what kind of training these people will receive before starting to work? I don't, but I do know they will have to complete state certified training by the Peace Officers Standards and Training Commission and be trained on the proper use of a non-lethal weapon before starting to work. I don't necessarily see it as a bad thing if they receive less than your average city, county, or state cop either since many people believe one of the reasons today's police are so trigger happy is the training they receive.

None of that helps explain to me why allowing a church that operates a school with hundreds or thousands of students would be different than allowing a private non-church affiliated university like Harvard to do the same. Private police forces at universities have been a thing as long as I can remember, and I don't recall anyone bitching about them being a threat to the bill of rights. What's the difference?

Well, I can present a few objections and considerations...

First, I didn't say and wouldn't grant that Private Secular College or Religious College police are much different.  In my experience with both, they are a bit crazy and are made up of people who can't get jobs with regular police forces because they are not qualified for actual police jobs.  They are more accurately called "Security Staff" or something like that for a reason.

Second, I loved the way you described Harvard as a private non-church affiliated university, as if church affiliation was generally required for a university.  Do you often fool yourself much that way?

Third, you said "I don't necessarily see it as a bad thing if they receive less than your average city, county, or state cop".  OK, that is a straight admission that they don't.  I'll give you an example of what it takes to get a job at the top level of State Cop. 

We had a guy in the dorm who was a utter fruitcake.  He would walk around naked.  He once stood on the back bumper naked while a friend drove around the dorms at the U of MD with a cape on his back  and holding a flaming broom.

That guy became a State Cop and apparently he was better to the State Cops then the applicants they considered even more deranged. 

Nuff said?

Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline PopeyesPappy

Re: WTH ALABAMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #51 on: September 03, 2019, 08:43:10 AM »
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Nuff said?

Not really.

Quote
First, I didn't say and wouldn't grant that Private Secular College or Religious College police are much different.  In my experience with both, they are a bit crazy and are made up of people who can't get jobs with regular police forces because they are not qualified for actual police jobs.  They are more accurately called "Security Staff" or something like that for a reason.

I asked a question of the OP. What makes a church affiliated private police force a threat to the Bill of Rights when a private university isn't considered so? Your reply was lack of training. I asked you how that made them different from a private university police force. Apparently in your opinion it doesn't.

Quote
Second, I loved the way you described Harvard as a private non-church affiliated university, as if church affiliation was generally required for a university.  Do you often fool yourself much that way?

What the fuck are you talking about, Cavebear? I specifically called out Harvard because it is a private as opposed to a public university. How you got from there to I think church affiliation is required of a university is beyond my comprehension.

Quote
Third, you said "I don't necessarily see it as a bad thing if they receive less than your average city, county, or state cop".  OK, that is a straight admission that they don't.  I'll give you an example of what it takes to get a job at the top level of State Cop.

Can you read? If so then nice straw man. I didn't admit less training would be required. I asked you if you how much would be required. I said I didn't know how much would be required. I said their training would have to state certified, and it would include the use of nonlethal force. I also said less training wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing bad thing because many think the training modern police officers get results in them shooting more people than they need to. That isn't under training. It is over training.

Save a life. Adopt a Greyhound.


Offline Cavebear

Re: WTH ALABAMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #52 on: September 03, 2019, 09:37:16 AM »
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Not really.

I asked a question of the OP. What makes a church affiliated private police force a threat to the Bill of Rights when a private university isn't considered so? Your reply was lack of training. I asked you how that made them different from a private university police force. Apparently in your opinion it doesn't.

What the fuck are you talking about, Cavebear? I specifically called out Harvard because it is a private as opposed to a public university. How you got from there to I think church affiliation is required of a university is beyond my comprehension.

Can you read? If so then nice straw man. I didn't admit less training would be required. I asked you if you how much would be required. I said I didn't know how much would be required. I said their training would have to state certified, and it would include the use of nonlethal force. I also said lC.

You think you said more than you said.

And I especially liked you saying that "A bunch of new laws took effect here today. I believe that includes the one for this private police force."

I very specifically object to private police forces.  Those are just wannabe cops (as crazy as some of them are) but not even qualified for that.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline aitm

Re: WTH ALABAMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #53 on: September 03, 2019, 10:54:55 AM »
I assume that private police forces must maintain themselves within restricted locations. It would turn into a shit fest if all of a sudden they were allowed to join in with public forces outside their locations. And just as surely as multiple municipalities have agreements allowing crossing of municipal boundaries, it could be a matter of time before PoDunk Baptist police force joins in high speed chase through Arkansas.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Offline Cavebear

Re: WTH ALABAMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #54 on: September 03, 2019, 12:36:34 PM »
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I assume that private police forces must maintain themselves within restricted locations. It would turn into a shit fest if all of a sudden they were allowed to join in with public forces outside their locations. And just as surely as multiple municipalities have agreements allowing crossing of municipal boundaries, it could be a matter of time before PoDunk Baptist police force joins in high speed chase through Arkansas.

I worry that any religious college will naturally select religious security applicants who would, in turn, naturally forgive religious visitors of all crimes and actually hide the events.  And even actively be against anyone who was not religious.  It would almost be their job description.  It would at least be a basic assumption.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: WTH ALABAMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #55 on: September 03, 2019, 12:58:30 PM »
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I worry that any religious college will naturally select religious security applicants who would, in turn, naturally forgive religious visitors of all crimes and actually hide the events.  And even actively be against anyone who was not religious.  It would almost be their job description.  It would at least be a basic assumption.

Yes.  And communist organizations hire fellow communists.  Do you shit your pants over other people's problems?  Good, lets put you in charge of hiring every security guard and policeman.  To help with paranoia.
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: WTH ALABAMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #56 on: September 03, 2019, 01:04:39 PM »
Rent-a-cops are notorious for making poor decisions in tight situations.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline Cavebear

Re: WTH ALABAMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #57 on: September 03, 2019, 01:11:35 PM »
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Rent-a-cops are notorious for making poor decisions in tight situations.

That's my point...  Better said than I did.  Thanks.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Cavebear

Re: WTH ALABAMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #58 on: September 03, 2019, 01:31:11 PM »
We used to call them the "Hertz Rent-A-Cops".  Qualified to keep peace at the local McDonalds.  Many of them were security guards at the malls I worked in for a few years because they just weren't qualified to get a serious cop job.  And to be fair, they wanted to be good at their jobs.  I don't demean their DESIRE. But for most of them, it was just a step up from warehouse work and they had no real training in police work. 

They were large, had a baton, and a cheap badge.  But if there had been a shot fired, they would have run like hell.  They didn't have a gun.  No mall would have trusted them with one.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: WTH ALABAMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #59 on: September 03, 2019, 01:32:53 PM »
Mall cops are a meme.  I feel sorry for them having to deal with the teen punks.  Good thing all the malls are going bankrupt.
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

 

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