Author Topic: Trump Approves Strikes on Iran, but Then Abruptly Pulls Back  (Read 873 times)

Offline drunkenshoe

What do you think about it? Was this real? He wanted to do it, but generals pulled back? Or was it a show down?

He can't declare war like that can he? Isn't that the congress' job?

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"WASHINGTON — President Trump approved military strikes against Iran in retaliation for downing an American surveillance drone, but pulled back from launching them on Thursday night after a day of escalating tensions.

As late as 7 p.m., military and diplomatic officials were expecting a strike, after intense discussions and debate at the White House among the president’s top national security officials and congressional leaders, according to multiple senior administration officials involved in or briefed on the deliberations.

Officials said the president had initially approved attacks on a handful of Iranian targets, like radar and missile batteries.

The operation was underway in its early stages when it was called off, a senior administration official said. Planes were in the air and ships were in position, but no missiles had been fired when word came to stand down, the official said.

For Mr. Trump, “judgment time is coming” on how to respond to Iran.]

The abrupt reversal put a halt to what would have been the president’s third military action against targets in the Middle East. Mr. Trump had struck twice at targets in Syria, in 2017 and 2018.

It was not clear whether Mr. Trump simply changed his mind on the strikes or whether the administration altered course because of logistics or strategy. It was also not clear whether the attacks might still go forward. ..."
« Last Edit: June 21, 2019, 02:44:45 AM by drunkenshoe »
'the wise man does not seek enlightenment, he waits for it. so while ı was waiting, it occurred to me that seeking perplexity might be more fun.’ - lu-tze

Online Baruch

Re: Trump Approves Strikes on Iran, but Then Abruptly Pulls Back
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2019, 03:59:51 AM »
It would be wrong to order strikes against Iran, since the provocation isn't sufficient, and Iranian self defense is justified.

This applies to US presence in Syria as well.  We have no need to be there.  And no need anywhere to engage in false flags.

This is why "entangling alliances" are a bad idea.  I look forward to the replacement of NATO with an EU defense force (minus American involvement).

BTE = NYT is not a reliable source for anything.  Bird cage fodder.
𐎍𐎜𐎜𐎟𐎌𐎀𐎍𐎎𐎀𐎀𐎚𐎀𐎟𐎍𐎜𐎜𐎟𐎁𐎀𐎍𐎉𐎀𐎀𐎚𐎀
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Online Baruch

Re: Trump Approves Strikes on Iran, but Then Abruptly Pulls Back
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2019, 04:20:29 AM »
"“In light of the targeting of an unmanned U.S. drone by Iran, it is essential that we remain fully engaged with our allies, recognize that we are not dealing with a responsible adversary and do everything in our power to de-escalate." -  Pelosi

"Trump told reporters that Iran made a "very big mistake" but also said he had the feeling that it might have been the result of someone being "loose" or doing something "stupid," rather than a deliberate provocation by Iran."

Supposedly Iranian Revolutionary Guards did it.  They are already labeled a terrorist organization.  The analogy is the the Japanese Kwantung Army in Manchuria, that tried to pretend it wasn't part of the Japanese government (to give it plausible deniability).  The US has done the same thing with Al Qaeda and ISIS.

But it begs the question.  Technically, the US has been at war with Iran, since Iran supported the Houthi rebels in Yemen against our ally, Saudi Arabia.  And one of the reason for challenging/shooting down reconnaissance planes is for SIGINT.  And the shutdown will provide the US with clues to true Iranian/Russian capabilities.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2019, 04:23:48 AM by Baruch »
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline drunkenshoe

Re: Trump Approves Strikes on Iran, but Then Abruptly Pulls Back
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2019, 06:10:48 AM »
Who cares who shot the drone? It's offically Iran's Armed Forces in Iran, isn't it? Iran officially declared that they shot it down on purpose to protect their air space.

Whatever the reason or whoever shot it down, it's not a mistake. And he keeps saying it is a big mistake. 'Deliberate provocation by Iran?' LOL Then he orders a strike but calls it off when planes in air and ships in position?!

It's not even the usual US vs some country win-lose scenario. It's a right down lose-lose scenario.

All I can think it is a bluff or he really tried to pull something liked that but slapped down by some generals who actually has an idea about war and also a one with Iran.

« Last Edit: June 21, 2019, 06:15:36 AM by drunkenshoe »
'the wise man does not seek enlightenment, he waits for it. so while ı was waiting, it occurred to me that seeking perplexity might be more fun.’ - lu-tze

Re: Trump Approves Strikes on Iran, but Then Abruptly Pulls Back
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2019, 01:41:52 PM »
The United States is the rogue nation, that already has nukes and other weapons of mass destruction, and apparently has little compunction about using them.
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Online Baruch

Re: Trump Approves Strikes on Iran, but Then Abruptly Pulls Back
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2019, 01:54:53 PM »
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Who cares who shot the drone? It's offically Iran's Armed Forces in Iran, isn't it? Iran officially declared that they shot it down on purpose to protect their air space.

Whatever the reason or whoever shot it down, it's not a mistake. And he keeps saying it is a big mistake. 'Deliberate provocation by Iran?' LOL Then he orders a strike but calls it off when planes in air and ships in position?!

It's not even the usual US vs some country win-lose scenario. It's a right down lose-lose scenario.

All I can think it is a bluff or he really tried to pull something liked that but slapped down by some generals who actually has an idea about war and also a one with Iran.

No, Revolutionary Guards are separate, like SS in Nazi Germany.  Iran did own up to it.  If they cut the Revolutionary Guards connection to the regime, then the regime would fall.  The regular Iranian Army isn't pro-ayatollah.  That is why the Revolutionary Guards exist.  Why Hitler had to create the SS, after dumping the Brownshirts.

US reaction is relief, and more support for Trump.  Therefore may have all been planned in advance.  Yes, you have to be willing to recall the forces 10 mins (so I am told) before something bad happens.  Calling it a mistake (by the Iranians) is the first diplomatic thing Trump has ever done with Iran (who Israel wants to see genocided).  But don't expect a pseudo friendship to breakout, like between Trump and Un.
𐎍𐎜𐎜𐎟𐎌𐎀𐎍𐎎𐎀𐎀𐎚𐎀𐎟𐎍𐎜𐎜𐎟𐎁𐎀𐎍𐎉𐎀𐎀𐎚𐎀
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: Trump Approves Strikes on Iran, but Then Abruptly Pulls Back
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2019, 03:32:20 PM »
It's supposed to be the Legislative Branch's job to declare war, but the President has the ability to go over their heads in the event of an emergency. However, Presidents have been ignoring that limitation and declaring their own wars for years. The rules don't matter anymore.
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville

Offline Shiranu

Re: Trump Approves Strikes on Iran, but Then Abruptly Pulls Back
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2019, 07:31:35 PM »
Quote
He can't declare war like that can he? Isn't that the congress' job?

Congress gave that right away to allow us into the War on Terror, and have never officially reclaimed the exclusive right to do so back. However a Senator from Oregon is proposing a bill that would make it where the Executive Branch could be sued for declaring war without the Senate's approval... which doesn't do much good if the first strike is gotten off before that process can begin.

It's a bit worse than that though; Tulsi Gabbard, a Congresswoman from Hawai'i, claims that Congress was recently voting on a bill that gives the Executive Branch the legal authority to both plan and implement "defensive strategies" against Iran. If it went through, which she assumed it was going to, it means that not just Trump but men like John Bolton and Pompeo (both of whom are notorious warhawks and in favour of war with Iran) are given free reign to start moving the military into position to strike... and in doing so provoking a fight in the first place.

Quod est inferius, est sicut quod est superius.
Et quod est superius, est sicut quod est inferius.

Online Hydra009

Re: Trump Approves Strikes on Iran, but Then Abruptly Pulls Back
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2019, 08:41:04 PM »
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He can't declare war like that can he? Isn't that the congress' job?
Technically, only Congress can declare war.  And the last time it did so was 1942.

The President, as Commander In Chief, can authorize the use of force at any time - essentially fighting an undeclared war.

Congress may rubberstamp the President's actions with a surprisingly broad and vague "authorization to use force" like they did with Iraq and/or provide additional military funds.

As you can see from the sheer number of conflicts the US has been involved in since WWII, the US has a rather frequent habit of sending troops without a declaration of war.

Online Baruch

Re: Trump Approves Strikes on Iran, but Then Abruptly Pulls Back
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2019, 09:31:02 PM »
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It's supposed to be the Legislative Branch's job to declare war, but the President has the ability to go over their heads in the event of an emergency. However, Presidents have been ignoring that limitation and declaring their own wars for years. The rules don't matter anymore.

Since 1941 ... in continuous war.  With truces/change in war zone.  Congress controls where in general the universal war is being fought (Iran for example) not that there is war.  The US economy can't survive without war.  Technically, from Truman to Nixon, the President had a big loophole as to initiating a new war zone.  Because nukes.  With Ford forward, this unilateral power has been cut back.  The bigger problem is once the Congress does give a go ahead to back a new war zone (opened tentatively by the White House) ... they have a hard time giving it up.  See our failure in Afghanistan.  The Patriot Act did jigger more leeway to the White House in 2001 ... terrorists ... cough, cough.
𐎍𐎜𐎜𐎟𐎌𐎀𐎍𐎎𐎀𐎀𐎚𐎀𐎟𐎍𐎜𐎜𐎟𐎁𐎀𐎍𐎉𐎀𐎀𐎚𐎀
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: Trump Approves Strikes on Iran, but Then Abruptly Pulls Back
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2019, 09:46:17 PM »
Why would any of you take anything that the Orange Shitgibbon says at face value?

He's a lying sack of shit.  Period.
The Christian church, in its attitude toward science, shows the mind of a more or less enlightened man of the Thirteenth Century. It no longer believes that the earth is flat, but it is still convinced that prayer can cure after medicine fails.

-- H. L. Mencken

Online Baruch

Re: Trump Approves Strikes on Iran, but Then Abruptly Pulls Back
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2019, 09:55:14 PM »
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Why would any of you take anything that the Orange Shitgibbon says at face value?

He's a lying sack of shit.  Period.

Why would you believe a shit bag like Obama or Hillary?  Like our Syria, Ukraine and Libya interventions.  What about Yemen?

NYT is unhappy.  NYC is of Israel, by Israel, for Israel.  There were no dancing Israelis when Trump decided not to take 150 Iranian servicemen's lives.

So John Bolton is saying, he has restrained the President's non-violent tendencies.  And that all the interventions from Afghanistan forward were successes.  But that is what you get with a maniac with a big mostache.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2019, 09:59:16 PM by Baruch »
𐎍𐎜𐎜𐎟𐎌𐎀𐎍𐎎𐎀𐎀𐎚𐎀𐎟𐎍𐎜𐎜𐎟𐎁𐎀𐎍𐎉𐎀𐎀𐎚𐎀
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Shiranu

Re: Trump Approves Strikes on Iran, but Then Abruptly Pulls Back
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2019, 09:57:47 PM »
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Why would any of you take anything that the Orange Shitgibbon says at face value?

He's a lying sack of shit.  Period.

I don't... but I also haven't seen anyone refuting that story either, and his administration is prone to leaks. I don't necessarily buy his reason why he did it, only that he probably did... and probably for no other reason than he is a sick fuck who wants to play life and death situations like a reality show just to get his knocks.


Quote
Why would you believe a shit bag like Obama or Hillary?

I'm still not sold on Obama being the anti-Christ (though he was certainly no Jesus), but I will agree that believing Hillary is a fool's choice.

I also am not sure what either have to do with the price of kebab in Qom.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2019, 09:59:37 PM by Shiranu »
Quod est inferius, est sicut quod est superius.
Et quod est superius, est sicut quod est inferius.

Online Baruch

Re: Trump Approves Strikes on Iran, but Then Abruptly Pulls Back
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2019, 10:00:41 PM »
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I don't... but I also haven't seen anyone refuting that story either, and his administration is prone to leaks. I don't necessarily buy his reason why he did it, only that he probably did... and probably for no other reason than he is a sick fuck who wants to play life and death situations like a reality show just to get his knocks.



I'm still not sold on Obama being the anti-Christ (though he was certainly no Jesus), but I will agree that believing Hillary is a fool's choice.

I also am not sure what either have to do with the price of kebab in Qom.

Like Obama, like Hillary?  Yes, ordering death is a rush.  Even better, being in the line of fire yourself.  An ugly truth about humanity.

So Trump is wrong if he attacks Iran, and Trump is wrong if he doesn't attack Iran.  And he is the crazy one?

BTW ... Tucker Carlson, has John Bolton to rights ... let you haters heads explode with that.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2019, 10:07:25 PM by Baruch »
𐎍𐎜𐎜𐎟𐎌𐎀𐎍𐎎𐎀𐎀𐎚𐎀𐎟𐎍𐎜𐎜𐎟𐎁𐎀𐎍𐎉𐎀𐎀𐎚𐎀
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Shiranu

Re: Trump Approves Strikes on Iran, but Then Abruptly Pulls Back
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2019, 10:34:31 PM »
Quote
So Trump is wrong if he attacks Iran...

Yes, particularly if his admin continues to provoke a fight... and especially if it's over their nuclear enrichment program that he pulled out of the regulations on.

Quote
And Trump is wrong if he doesn't attack Iran.

Nope. Only if Iran poses a unprovoked, legitimate and eminent threat to us would it be right.
Quod est inferius, est sicut quod est superius.
Et quod est superius, est sicut quod est inferius.

 

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