Woman poisons her entire family

Started by Smartmarzipan, June 22, 2013, 09:22:43 PM

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Johan

Quote from: "FrankDK"> What about the availability of antifreeze?

Well, let's see... There are about 30,000 deaths in the US from firearms.  How many deaths result from antifreeze?  Not as dangerous, is it?

Also, it's a totally inappropriate comparison.  If all antifreeze disappeared overnight, come winter, cars wouldn't run, and that would destroy the US economy, since most people depend on cars to get to work and shopping.  If all the privately owned firearms disappeared, there would be almost no impact whatsoever, except gun nuts would be louder than usual.  There may be a few farmers who use guns to kill predators, and one or two families that still depend on hunting for meat.  But that's about it.

The landmark CDC study showed that gun ownership increased the likelihood of being shot.  It was so convincing that immediately after it was released, the NRA passed a law that made it illegal for the CDC to do research on gun statistics.

Frank



Obviously antifreeze isn't used to kill as often as guns are. Forgive me but, duh. The point is, taking away the guns doesn't solve the problem. Doesn't even slow it down all that much. Cases like this one illustrate that quite clearly. If people want to kill, they will find a way. That is the point. So if you want to solve the problem of people wanting to kill other people, trying to limit access to the most commonly used tools is really piss poor way to do it IMO.

Also if you think the number of people that use guns to kill predictors is only a few farmers and that only one or two families depend on hunting for meat in this country I suggest you try to get out a little more.
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false and by the rulers as useful

Plu

QuoteIf people want to kill, they will find a way.

Fortunately you can arm yourself against death by anti-freeze quite well by not eating the sandwich the burglar offers you, though :)

billhilly

Jesus fuckin Christ on a booster rocket!  The homicide rate is at a historic low in the US for whatever reason.  Can we not just all agree that this woman was fuckin nuts?

Johan

Quote from: "Plu"
QuoteIf people want to kill, they will find a way.

Fortunately you can arm yourself against death by anti-freeze quite well by not eating the sandwich the burglar offers you, though :)
I know you're just being cute and snarky and I'm good with that. But its the end of a 20 hour day for me and I'm so fried I can hardly see straight. So you'll have to forgive me if I sound preachy but topics like this just get under my skin. I have known my share of people who became homicide statistics, and in my personal experience anyway, absolutely none of them got to be a homicide statistic because of a gun or a bullet.

Do we have a problem with people being too quick to want to kill other people in this country? Absofuckinglutely. And something needs to be done about it.

But one kids kills some other people with a gun and its headline news and there are multiple threads on dozens of forums all talking about how something needs to be done and we need to take action and so on and so forth. And then some woman kills her own family with antifreeze and it doesn't make national news at all and the single thread on about it on a internet forum consists mainly of the people saying 'eh, crazy bitch killed her family. Damnedest thing.' And that annoys me to no end.

Don't be mad about the one and want to pass a bunch of ill conceived laws as a result unless you're going to do the exact same about the other because its the same problem in both cases and it requires the same solution in both cases.
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false and by the rulers as useful

Plu

While I agree with you, I do wonder if gun culture has something to do with it. It just dawned on me when I read the topic about Popeye's shooting range and posting pictures of his guns. The general reaction he gets is "You have tools designed to kill. You're so cool."

If someone were to post pictures of his guns where I live, the most likely response would be "You're a fucking nutjob".

Likewise when you look at the military. In the US you are automatically a hero for going out and killing "dem foreigners". Where I live, it's just a job.

One most wonder if the attitude you have towards tools designed to kill and the people wielding said tools aren't among the reasons that people in the US are so quick to kill other people. Banning guns won't be the final solution, but the culture built around them is certainly a part of the problem I'd think.

And also dealing with mental health problems, but considering the amount of protest against the whole concept of national healthcare, well, it seems people don't really feel like dealing with those either.

Aletheia

Quote from: "billhilly"Jesus fuckin Christ on a booster rocket!  The homicide rate is at a historic low in the US for whatever reason.  Can we not just all agree that this woman was fuckin nuts?

Most of us generally put up with one another and can go our whole lives without killing one another. Then there are a few like this particular woman who is missing more than just a little bit of "empathy" which can result in impulsive, irrational, and in rare cases, homicidal tendencies.

Wouldn't our money be better spent learning how to recognize such aberrant personality types? It seems pretty obvious that your average citizen isn't going to go out and shoot, poison, run-over, or by some other means, kill someone - regardless of what tools are available.

I could theoretically grab the kitchen knife and kill my boyfriend in his sleep if I choose to do so. What would you think would be the more rational choice to prevent and/or manage such occurrences: outlaw kitchen knives from the general public or fund mental health outreach programs to help identify and if possible, rehabilitate those with distorted cognitions?

And yes, this woman is fucking nuts.
Quote from: Jakenessif you believe in the supernatural, you do not understand modern science. Period.

Johan

Quote from: "Plu"While I agree with you, I do wonder if gun culture has something to do with it. It just dawned on me when I read the topic about Popeye's shooting range and posting pictures of his guns. The general reaction he gets is "You have tools designed to kill. You're so cool."
I'm not familiar with what you're referencing so I can't really comment on it. But yes, we most definitely have a gun culture in this country. And again, we could have banned all guns on the day I was born and every single person I've known who became a homicide statistic would have still been a homicide statistic. So does our gun culture have something to do with the problem? Not significantly as far as I can tell. Contributing factor? Sure, absolutely. The root of the problem? Not even close.

QuoteIf someone were to post pictures of his guns where I live, the most likely response would be "You're a fucking nutjob".
That is no different here. Certainly there would be more people here who likely say 'eh, cool gun' but the most likely response would still be the same.

QuoteIn the US you are automatically a hero for going out and killing "dem foreigners".
Says who? I won't deny that there a people in this country who feel this way. But I don't feel this way. My friends and family don't feel this way. The majority of the people I know don't feel this way.

QuoteOne most wonder if the attitude you have towards tools designed to kill and the people wielding said tools aren't among the reasons that people in the US are so quick to kill other people. Banning guns won't be the final solution, but the culture built around them is certainly a part of the problem I'd think.
Fair enough. I disagree, but fair enough. So my question is do we solve the problem of car exhaust damaging the atmosphere by only allowing people to drive cars 2 hours per day or do we solve the problem by making cars that don't damage the atmosphere?

You don't solve the homicide problem by trying to take away the most common tools. You solve the homicide problem by solving the fucking homicide problem. And yeah, that's a tough cookie to crack. But where's the discussion on that? Where's Piers Morgan on that? Nowhere, that's where.
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false and by the rulers as useful

Mermaid

Quote from: "Solitary"One has to wonder about how qualified the medical examiner was, even vets know when a dog dies from antifreeze.  :roll: Solitary
There is no diagnostic other than acute renal failure and a history of the dog being allowed near antifreeze. That isn't exactly first to mind when a human dies of it.
A cynical habit of thought and speech, a readiness to criticise work which the critic himself never tries to perform, an intellectual aloofness which will not accept contact with life’s realities â€" all these are marks, not as the possessor would fain to think, of superiority but of weakness. -TR

AllPurposeAtheist

Dealing with murder in general is to pervasive and vague. It's like dealing with moisture in a hurricane and subsequent floods. Poison? Really? Hundreds of 1000's exist in nature alone plus the gazillion produced by humans..
Mental health care in the US is a joke so trying to attack the root of murder? Greed, envy, lust, revenge? Maybe the ten commandments? I know.. go after the root of all evil.. WOMEN!
Well, that's what Pat Robertson might say anyway.. :-k
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Aroura33

And here I thought I was going to read a thread about a woman who poisoned her family. I should have known better.

At first I was wondering if this was one of those Munchousen by proxy cases, but no, seems like she did not want sympathy or attention, she just wanted them dead. The coldbloodedness reminds me of Dianne Downs or Anthony Casey.
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory.  LLAP"
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Plu

QuotePoison? Really? Hundreds of 1000's exist in nature alone plus the gazillion produced by humans..

The problem with poison is that it simply describes anything that would disrupt the working of the human body. And the human body is one of the most complex machines we've ever encountered, and taking away any few small parts will have it falling apart.

It's the same reason that drugs come in such numbers and are so easy to make; a drug is simply a weak poison that disrupts the proper workings of the brain. Which is the most complicated part of the most complicated machine.

It's why the stuff is so impossible to deal with.

Shiranu

Johan might have a case if the majority of violence was committed by the mentally ill. I disagree with this premise so I find her entire argument lacking.

As for the subject on topic: Yeah, most likely some sort of psycho person with mental issues. It's scary... you never know who might be fundamentally broken in the head to the point they would do something like this. Family, friends, neighbour, co-worker, spouse... it could be anyone. Some people have some... obvious... signs, but alot don't.
"A little science distances you from God, but a lot of science brings you nearer to Him." - Louis Pasteur

SGOS

Quote from: "Plu"If someone were to post pictures of his guns where I live, the most likely response would be "You're a fucking nutjob".
It's not all that different here.  Most people wouldn't think you were cool for posting pictures of yourself with your guns.  They would think you were a little weird.

Plu

I didn't neccesarily mean "posing with guns", I meant like the general "Look at what I bought" kind of post. The whole idea of telling people that you have or collect guns would be met with distrust and negative responses.

SGOS

Quote from: "Plu"I didn't neccesarily mean "posing with guns", I meant like the general "Look at what I bought" kind of post. The whole idea of telling people that you have or collect guns would be met with distrust and negative responses.
It would probably be more a roll of the eyes here.  You wouldn't automatically distrust the person, but the issue of trust would certainly cross your mind.  And you're right.  Just a collection of guns might not illicit an automatic response, but a guy dressed up like Poncho Villa decked out with his bandoliers and pearl handles holstered with grips forward, well you wouldn't have any desire to hang out with that guy.