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Quest for Truth

Started by Absolute_Agent, June 16, 2019, 09:02:36 PM

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Absolute_Agent

#645
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on August 11, 2019, 08:05:16 PM
I don't impose the idea of god itself. I can be without it without opposing it. It is like this:  I am without the belief that I will find a suitcase with 100 million euros in it. I wouldn't mind it happening, but I'm not going to build my life around the assumption that it will. I'm open to finding the suitcase, but people never can quite tell or agree on where it will be exactly, nor what color or shape it is, nor the kind of bills are in it. It doesn't seem likely that it exists, therefore. So I won't get into debt just yet, under the probably false assumption that I'll be ablo to pay back my loans tomorrow. Still: show me the money! Enrich my life.

Though, what I do take problems with, as an antitheist, not as an atheist, is that theists and religions impose such an unproven and most likely completely false assumption on people and get them to live their lives by it, as if it were true. And that, I feel, creates a lot of problems both on a private and on a societal level.

Also, have you heard nothing I said about atheism leading many to antitheist, ON TOP of their atheism? It's like you choose to ignore things, AA.

And lastly, mate, saying 'most people agree with me' does not an argument make.

I guess, I don't know, I'm sorry that the world isn't as out to get you as you think?

Right mate, that was a fantastically enlightening discourse into the mind of a non-anti-theism yet anti-theist atheist.  I'm not ignoring anything you say; sometimes though I press down hard in a focused direction to sort of squeeze the juice out of a particular construct.  I'm crystal clear now about where many of you are coming from.  Thanks much.

Now to get to the heart of what God can offer you if you're interested.  First thing you need to know is how deceptively simple it all is.  Not because God is deceptive, but people are deceived by their own suspicion and lack of trust in pure goodness.  Secondly, there's been a lot of corruption among religions so most of the time you're getting a warped version of the facts, or some of them missing.  Thirdly, all major religions have a common origin, but each is suited to the cultures they were organic to.  It seems like they're all saying different things but it all points the same direction.  It's not important where you start, but THAT you start.  Why were these things revealed in all different formats and different cultures, and why did God make so many cultures and languages anyway?  God you see is a bit playful.  He loves variety and creativity.  He loves the intricate nuances of people relating to one another through different modes of thought.  Fourthly, the main goal of religions is to get you in touch with a reality that's way beyond the physical time-space dimension.  There's an infinite number of ways to do that, but each involves doing a bit of "rewiring" on your mind.  But God isn't a cruel tyrant so He would never force it upon you.  Having created you He knows the perfect way to get you into that state of mind in such a way that it will be a lasting change, no regrets, and no loss of your existing capabilities.  What's the point of all that?  Well, it's indescribably blissful, incomparable--something you would sell all the gold in the world for if you could taste it.  Now, the methodology is a bit bumpy at times because you'll be facing your inner demons--the parts of you that you always avoid because they're ugly.  But God is able to transform those into something exquisitely beautiful with your permission.  Also, it is by no means a passive process, it involves effort on your part. What throws so many people off is they just can't accept that God wants them to be happy.  It's too scary to trust.  But trust is exactly what God loves from you.  And He can be trusted 100%.  When you learn to trust God you can soar to undreamt-of heights; it's like seeing in color for the first time having lived your life in black and white.  Maybe it sounds too good to be true.  Maybe you've heard all this before.  But  I'm not just rattling off a script.  I experience this almost every day, and it gets better and better.

So these are the goods you asked about.  Care to proceed?

Cavebear

Quote from: Absolute_Agent on August 12, 2019, 01:52:52 AM
Right mate, that was a fantastically enlightening discourse into the mind of a non-anti-theism yet anti-theist atheist.  I'm not ignoring anything you say; sometimes though I press down hard in a focused direction to sort of squeeze the juice out of a particular construct.  I'm crystal clear now about where many of you are coming from.  Thanks much.

Now to get to the heart of what God can offer you if you're interested.  First thing you need to know is how deceptively simple it all is.  Not because God is deceptive, but people are deceived by their own suspicion and lack of trust in pure goodness.  Secondly, there's been a lot of corruption among religions so most of the time you're getting a warped version of the facts, or some of them missing.  Thirdly, all major religions have a common origin, but each is suited to the cultures they were organic to.  It seems like they're all saying different things but it all points the same direction.  It's not important where you start, but THAT you start.  Why were these things revealed in all different formats and different cultures, and why did God make so many cultures and languages anyway?  God you see is a bit playful.  He loves variety and creativity.  He loves the intricate nuances of people relating to one another through different modes of thought.  Fourthly, the main goal of religions is to get you in touch with a reality that's way beyond the physical time-space dimension.  There's an infinite number of ways to do that, but each involves doing a bit of "rewiring" on your mind.  But God isn't a cruel tyrant so He would never force it upon you.  Having created you He knows the perfect way to get you into that state of mind in such a way that it will be a lasting change, no regrets, and no loss of your existing capabilities.  What's the point of all that?  Well, it's indescribably blissful, incomparable--something you would sell all the gold in the world for if you could taste it.  Now, the methodology is a bit bumpy at times because you'll be facing your inner demons--the parts of you that you always avoid because they're ugly.  But God is able to transform those into something exquisitely beautiful with your permission.  Also, it is by no means a passive process, it involves effort on your part. What throws so many people off is they just can't accept that God wants them to be happy.  It's too scary to trust.  But trust is exactly what God loves from you.  And He can be trusted 100%.  When you learn to trust God you can soar to undreamt-of heights; it's like seeing in color for the first time having lived your life in black and white.  Maybe it sounds too good to be true.  Maybe you've heard all this before.  But  I'm not just rattling off a script.  I experience this almost every day, and it gets better and better.

So these are the goods you asked about.  Care to proceed?

You claims of the love and kindliness of a deity are interesting. Such a strong belief deserves recognition.  Given that unsupported beliefs are not worth much, I offer a raspberry...

But one would have to have a positive reason to think that such a Being existed in the first place.  Lacking any evidence, I will continue to pass on the idea.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

josephpalazzo

Quote from: Absolute_Agent on August 12, 2019, 01:00:13 AM

The counterfeit gods are certain egocentric extraterrestrials and malevolent demons who induced men to worship things other than their Creator.

Sent from my moto e5 play using Tapatalk



ET went home already... he was cute and certainly not malevolent...

Cavebear

Quote from: Absolute_Agent on August 12, 2019, 01:52:52 AM

So these are the goods you asked about.  Care to proceed?

I'm considering the possibility of insanity...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Mike Cl

Quote from: Absolute_Agent on August 12, 2019, 01:00:13 AM

The counterfeit gods are certain egocentric extraterrestrials and malevolent demons who induced men to worship things other than their Creator.

Sent from my moto e5 play using Tapatalk
Errr..................uh......................well.......................okay.  Who created these counterfeit gods and demons? 
And are Mazda, Brahman, Vishnu, Shiva, Jesus, Yahweh all counterfeit also??? Is Allah the only true god?   
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Hydra009

#650
Quote from: Absolute_Agent on August 12, 2019, 01:00:13 AM
The counterfeit gods are certain egocentric extraterrestrials and malevolent demons who induced men to worship things other than their Creator.
Any idea where these "egocentric extraterrestrials" are?  Asking for a friend at NASA.  Also, SETI.

And I doubt they could be more egocentric than people who claim that they're God's favorite and created literally in his image.  And finally, they sometimes even claim to be part god.  Now THAT is arrogant!

And as far as demons go, praise Slaanesh.

Baruch

Quote from: Hydra009 on August 12, 2019, 12:15:36 PM
Any idea where these "egocentric extraterrestrials" are?  Asking for a friend at NASA.  Also, SETI.

And I doubt they could be more egocentric than people who claim that they're God's favorite and created literally in his image.  And finally, they sometimes even claim to be part god.  Now THAT is arrogant!

And as far as demons go, praise Slaanesh.

A friend of mine, concluded that the "aliens" were actually demons, using trans-dimensional Hell tech ;-)
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Unbeliever

I think there was a movie like that...
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Baruch

Quote from: Unbeliever on August 12, 2019, 06:03:05 PM
I think there was a movie like that...

Did you need counseling after that? ;-)
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Unbeliever

Yeah, I figured I'd better call Saul...oh, wait, you mean, like therapy, not legal counsel?
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Baruch

Quote from: Unbeliever on August 12, 2019, 06:24:16 PM
Yeah, I figured I'd better call Saul...oh, wait, you mean, like therapy, not legal counsel?

How about the witch of Endor?  That is who Saul called on.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Unbeliever

God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Absolute_Agent

#657
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 12, 2019, 09:36:21 AM
Errr..................uh......................well.......................okay.  Who created these counterfeit gods and demons? 
And are Mazda, Brahman, Vishnu, Shiva, Jesus, Yahweh all counterfeit also??? Is Allah the only true god?
God created everything, including Jesus (AS). ET's were called gods because they seemed to possess supernatural powers to our primitive ancestors.  Most principle gods can be traced back to Sumerian origins.  These were real extraterrestrial people who in many instances had benevolent designs for humanity, but there were a few who were on the egomaniacal side (Baal / Marduk being the main example). Additionally, non-material beings living in a parallel reality on Earth (also created by God) induced our ancestors to worship them.  In Christianity they are called demons; jinns in Islam.  The majority of jinns are extremely antagonistic towards humankind.  Because of this as well as their enmity towards God, they are given the appellation "satans" / shayateen (opponents).  These are the two principle sources of polytheism in history.  Brahman is likely just another name for God, and is historically linked with the Hebrew YHVH.  The Hebrew nation, tracing its lineage back through Abraham, Noah and Adam were an elite priesthood charged by God with preserving the monotheistic tradition (imparted to them by the ETs) and have done so to this day through the tribe of Judah (origin of the Jews).  The rest of Jacob's descendents (Israel) were scattered and intermixed among the nations.

Deus summus

Absolute_Agent



Quote from: Hydra009 on August 12, 2019, 12:15:36 PM
Any idea where these "egocentric extraterrestrials" are?  Asking for a friend at NASA.  Also, SETI.
They're all around us.  They never left.


Deus summus


Absolute_Agent

Quote from: Unbeliever on August 11, 2019, 05:31:37 PM
I know of at least two scientific models that allow for a universe of infinite temporal duration, both forwards and backward. In both of those the big bang we know of was only the latest in an infinite series of big bangs. Neither of them involve a spatial reversal that collapses into a singularity. Tolman has shown that that model can't continue forever due to entropy.

But the "ekpyrotic" cyclic cosmology of Steinhardt/Turok doesn't have that problem:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclic_model

And neither does Penrose's conformal cyclic cosmology:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conformal_cyclic_cosmology


So it's at least theoretically possible to have a universe with no beginning or end, with no need of any creator.
So what do you think of the multiverse concept?  Ever read Brian Greene?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0307278123/ref=sspa_mw_detail_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Deus summus