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Quest for Truth

Started by Absolute_Agent, June 16, 2019, 09:02:36 PM

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Baruch

Scientists and engineers are patriotic weapon makers.  As they should be.  There is nothing wrong with killing people.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

josephpalazzo

Quote from: Absolute_Agent on August 10, 2019, 12:05:55 PM
... if your starting assumption is that nothing that exists was created, all material reality was self-caused!



???



I don't know where you got that. Certainly not from my post.

QuoteIt just randomly poofed itself into existence, you assume?


???


QuoteOnce again you have succinctly proved my point: the only difference between us is how much of the available evidence you use, and how you interpret it. Like I said, science is handicapped by its assumptions.


Your assumption is that God exists. And so you are handicapped by your own assumptions. At least science produced electricity, computers, the internet and thousands of other inventions that improve our lives.


Quote


God-less science never stopped Hitler; in fact, it enabled him.  The blood of the Jews,  of Nagasaki, and Hiroshima, is on your hands.



Get yourself informed, Hitler was a devout Catholic, a theist like you, who believed that God had sent him to rule the planet. Are you saying that God was wrong in selecting Hitler as his new Messiah?

Baruch

Quote from: josephpalazzo on August 10, 2019, 12:43:16 PM

???



I don't know where you got that. Certainly not from my post.



???



Your assumption is that God exists. And so you are handicapped by your own assumptions. At least science produced electricity, computers, the internet and thousands of other inventions that improve our lives.



Get yourself informed, Hitler was a devout Catholic, a theist like you, who believed that God had sent him to rule the planet. Are you saying that God was wrong in selecting Hitler as his new Messiah?

Hitler Catholic?  Bwahaha ... stick to Ohm's Law, leave Third Reich history to others.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

josephpalazzo

Quote from: Baruch on August 10, 2019, 01:22:12 PM
Hitler Catholic?  Bwahaha ... stick to Ohm's Law, leave Third Reich history to others.

The ignoramus has spoken. 


It's a well-known fact that Hitler was a Catholic - baptism and confirmation in a Catholic church, which are well documented. He did go through a period of rebellion against the church in his youth but soon reconciled.  He signed the Concordat with the RC as soon he took power in 1933. His relationship with the pope was documented in a book https://www.amazon.ca/Hitlers-Pope-Secret-History-Pius/dp/014311400X

QuoteLong-buried Vatican files reveal a new and shocking indictment of World War II’s Pope Pius XII: that in pursuit of absolute power he helped Adolf Hitler destroy German Catholic political opposition, betrayed the Jews of Europe, and sealed a deeply cynical pact with a 20th-century devil.


https://www.vanityfair.com/style/1999/10/pope-pius-xii-199910

Baruch

Quote from: josephpalazzo on August 10, 2019, 01:35:08 PM
The ignoramus has spoken. 


It's a well-known fact that Hitler was a Catholic - baptism and confirmation in a Catholic church, which are well documented. He did go through a period of rebellion against the church in his youth but soon reconciled.  He signed the Concordat with the RC as soon he took power in 1933. His relationship with the pope was documented in a book https://www.amazon.ca/Hitlers-Pope-Secret-History-Pius/dp/014311400X


https://www.vanityfair.com/style/1999/10/pope-pius-xii-199910

The Hitler Pope was ... a Nazi himself.  He betrayed the Rome City Jews to the Gestapo.  The Vatican did huge financial deals with Mussolini.  The Vatican was totally evil.  So as an ex-Catholic, are you projecting all your guilt upon Hitler?  Mussolini wasn't a devout Catholic either.  If they were, then you as an ex-Catholic have much to fear in the afterlife.  By saying what you are saying, you insult every Catholic.  Just like the Dems who say ever White Male is a racist misogynist.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

josephpalazzo

Quote from: Baruch on August 10, 2019, 01:57:39 PM
The Hitler Pope was ... a Nazi himself.  He betrayed the Rome City Jews to the Gestapo. 

Yes, the pope, Hitler are all Nazis. Blah, blah, blah...

Stop sidetracking the conversation with your idiocies. Absolute_Agent brought up Hitler and science. My response was in kind: Hitler and religion. No one hired you to defend Absolute_Agent. I'm sure he's capable of doing that on his own. Take a hike...


Absolute_Agent

#561
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 10, 2019, 09:22:37 AM
Actually, the universe could be considered eternal in that it is simply one phase of a universe creating system.  If the black holes are sucking in all the energy that comes close, and at a certain time that energy becomes too much for the black hole to handle, that excess energy forms a 'bud' or bubble and then breaks off the black hole and creates another universe via a 'big bang'.  Our universe could be simply part of an eternal system.  Yet, even that leaves us with a question that can never be answered--who/what created the first universe?  Or, who or what created the first god?
Have you been reading the Rig Veda?  What you describe is the Brahmanda / Cosmic Egg idea from Hindu creation mythology (15-12 B.C.E).  As for God?  Hinduism explains it this:

"Brhadaryanka Upanishad 1.4: the world is said to have come into existence because the Primeval One, having become bored being the only being in existence, split Itself into a variety of forms and manifestations (i.e., the material world and all of its beings) so that, through them, It could experience a loving and playful relationship with Itself. "

https://www.patheos.com/library/answers-to-frequently-asked-religion-questions/what-is-the-creation-story-in-hinduism

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josephpalazzo

Quote from: Absolute_Agent on August 10, 2019, 02:17:43 PM
...the world is said to have come into existence because the Primeval One, having become bored being the only being in existence, split Itself into a variety of forms and manifestations (i.e., the material world and all of its beings) so that, through them, It could experience a loving and playful relationship with Itself.


Someone concocted a fairy tale, and idiots fall for it...

Baruch

Quote from: josephpalazzo on August 10, 2019, 02:11:36 PM
Yes, the pope, Hitler are all Nazis. Blah, blah, blah...

Stop sidetracking the conversation with your idiocies. Absolute_Agent brought up Hitler and science. My response was in kind: Hitler and religion. No one hired you to defend Absolute_Agent. I'm sure he's capable of doing that on his own. Take a hike...

Ha ha ... I don't defend anyone.  Nobody is paying me to.  Who is paying you? ;-)  On occasion I agree with Absolute_Agent or Arik.  On occasion I agree with you.  Which bothers you more?
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Absolute_Agent

#564
Quote from: josephpalazzo on August 10, 2019, 12:43:16 PMI don't know where you got that. Certainly not from my post.
Ok we got our wires crossed.  I'm calling it quits for the day, maybe I'll go for a hike. [emoji6]
Quote from: josephpalazzo on August 10, 2019, 12:43:16 PM
Your assumption is that God exists. And so you are handicapped by your own assumptions. At least science produced electricity, computers, the internet and thousands of other inventions that improve our lives.
You act like God is anti-science.  You know, it was a Muslim who invented the scientific method?  That a Muslim invented the algebra you use to factor away God?  And that's just scratching the surface.  I love science.  Don't use it as weapon against my beliefs though. Capiche?
Quote from: josephpalazzo on August 10, 2019, 12:43:16 PM
Get yourself informed, Hitler was a devout Catholic, a theist like you, who believed that God had sent him to rule the planet. Are you saying that God was wrong in selecting Hitler as his new Messiah?
If he was so "devout" (what a joke) why was he implementing a political strategy to abolish religion for scientism?  The whole Messiah thing was political gobbledegook.  Just like Trump, a lying, stealing, cheating adulterer suddenly becomes a devout preacher of the "America needs to get back to God" routine, magically coinciding with his nomination.  Ruling the planet?  "Everybody wants to rule the world...". Including you.  You know who was a devout Catholic?  JFK.  The greatest president in history.

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josephpalazzo

Quote from: Baruch on August 10, 2019, 03:25:46 PM
Ha ha ... I don't defend anyone.  Nobody is paying me to.  Who is paying you? ;-)  On occasion I agree with Absolute_Agent or Arik.  On occasion I agree with you.  Which bothers you more?

It's been well documented that people like you who are conspiracy theorists have mental disease. You should check yourself at a mental institute. You would do a great favor not only to yourself but to all those who love you. GL.

Mr.Obvious

Quote from: Absolute_Agent on August 09, 2019, 12:21:46 PM
.I do understand your definition.  However I don't agree.  An atheist country must take an official stance that there is no God(s), whether that equates to anti-theism or not.  A secular country takes NO position.  It does not hold there is God(s), nor does it hold there is no God(s).

Congratulations, you are wrong.
Not only due to the fact that in essence a secular country, which again, whether you like it or not, is an atheist country, does act in such a way that it does not rely on a god nor makes special room for one and thereby, in essence, says that there is none as far as it is concerned, limited to its self-government. But also because you say the stance must be official, for it to be an atheist country.
Atheist means without god. Not against god. You can't make the distinction, which is sad, but hey:your loss. You are wrong, there is no clearer way to say it.

Quote
Of course I noticed.  Now can you elaborate logically on the material or functional difference between "not believing there is God(s)", and "believing there is no God(s)?"
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Well it doesn't change much in how I live my everyday life. Nor the convictions I hold and the choices I make. Practically, the only difference it makes in day-to-day life is this: when I'm debating with someone too dumb to understand the burden of proof, I can still rest assured that the reason for my stance, as the default position, is justified. Rather than feeling compelled to prove a negative statement. Which I would have to do, if I were intellectually honestas I am now, but felt I had evidence to back up my belief in the non-existance of a deity.  Basically it means I don't have to prove to you that there is no magical goblin hiding in my car, because while I have no evidence to support that there is no such creature in my car, I have no reason to assume there is one. So I can just go about my day and when you tell me I need to do something about said goblin, I can just shrug you off like a misinformed madman until you provide evidence for its existence.
"If we have to go down, we go down together!"
- Your mum, last night, requesting 69.

Atheist Mantis does not pray.

josephpalazzo

Quote from: Absolute_Agent on August 10, 2019, 04:20:22 PM
You act like God is anti-science.

God is a fiction. How could it be anti-science???

QuoteYou know, it was a Muslim who invented the scientific method?  That a Muslim invented the algebra you use to factor away God?  Get real bro.  I love science.  Don't use it as weapon against my beliefs though.


Well the Greeks pretty much had invented science. But it was fatally interrupted when Archimedes was killed after the siege of Syracuse fell to the Romans. But it's true that it was rediscovered by Ibn al-Haytham (Alhazen) in the 11th century. However Islam fell to religious fanatics who declared that only the Quran was the truth. Most of the scientists, scholars and philosophers were dispersed, and the scientific movement was altered until it was rediscovered again during the Italian Renaissance.
Quote... why was he implementing a political strategy to abolish religion for scientism?


I don't know where you got that. As soon as he took power in 1933, Hitler signed the Concordat with the Roman Catholic church, giving it exclusive right
to operate as it saw fit. And in most speeches, he implored God, and in private, always referred himself as a God given gift to the German people.


As to scientism, I believe you mean eugenics, which had a great following before Hitler arrived on the scene. Hitler adopted that because it was in line with his theory that Germans were a superior race.


Quote"Everybody wants to rule the world...". Including you. 




Sure, more power to me...LOL.

aileron

Quote from: Absolute_Agent on August 10, 2019, 04:20:22 PMYou know, it was a Muslim who invented the scientific method?

There is no such thing as "the scientific method". Any dabbler in science who declared he could formulate such a method had his ass handed to him on a platter by people conducting actual science.
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room! -- President Merkin Muffley

My mom was a religious fundamentalist. Plus, she didn't have a mouth. It's an unusual combination. -- Bender Bending Rodriguez

Mike Cl

Quote from: Absolute_Agent on August 10, 2019, 02:17:43 PM
Have you been reading the Rig Veda?  What you describe is the Brahmanda / Cosmic Egg idea from Hindu creation mythology (15-12 B.C.E).  As for God?  Hinduism explains it this:

"Brhadaryanka Upanishad 1.4: the world is said to have come into existence because the Primeval One, having become bored being the only being in existence, split Itself into a variety of forms and manifestations (i.e., the material world and all of its beings) so that, through them, It could experience a loving and playful relationship with Itself. "

https://www.patheos.com/library/answers-to-frequently-asked-religion-questions/what-is-the-creation-story-in-hinduism

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I have heard of the Rig Veda, but have not read any of it for quite some time.  But I don't really see the connection.  What I was saying is that this hypothesis suggests that this universe was formed from the energy of another universe via a black hole.  I suppose one could call a black hole a cosmic egg, but I don't see a connection between a black hole and a god.  A black hole is real and god(s) are fiction with no evidence to support it.  While interesting, I don't think Hinduism has the answer.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?