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Quest for Truth

Started by Absolute_Agent, June 16, 2019, 09:02:36 PM

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Mike Cl

Quote from: Baruch on August 03, 2019, 08:49:10 PM
He is using a loose definition of satanism and atheism.  As polemics.  Clearly the LeVay church doesn't do much of anything.  Aesop was executed by the people of Delphi for blasphemy.  They tossed him off the top of the nearby mountain.  Campbell was a mystic, a rare bird in any age.

There are degrees of religious participation ...

1. Shaman - the mystics
2. Clergy - the management
3. Laity - the hoi polloi

The problem is with #2 and #3, which is pretty much everybody,.

For example, just this week, in finding Christian theological predecessors in Hinduism ... I could see it now.  Not before.  Wasn't looking in the right places, and farther back not mature enough.  Allegorical anaysis ... is what I am doing.  Even substitutionary atonement is there.  Not just the Trinity.
I see the major problem with the clergy.  Especially the clergy that are hierarchical in arrangement.  Then it becomes more about the gathering of power and not helping people figure out what all the scripture nonsense is all about.  Literal interpretations are the easiest propaganda to feed to the masses for the gathering, maintenance and increasing of power.  That is what clergy does--allegory is their enemy.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Baruch

Quote from: SGOS on August 03, 2019, 04:34:47 PM
I know of no instance where God ever stopped a child murderer, be he Satanist, Christian, Muslim, or atheist. Such crimes are punished by laws written by men.  Oh, God makes a big fuss about it, while at other times, he commands it.  But he fails to stop it in every case.  It's almost like he's not there.

Also, I'm thinking you actually know the difference between Satanist and atheist.  I've met many atheists, but I never met a Satanist.

Now laws are effective, unless enforced.  When the Catholic Church had authority, it was enforced.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

Quote from: Unbeliever on August 03, 2019, 05:55:54 PM

For some people everything is a dick-measuring contest.

Does Fruit of the Loom know?
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

#393
Quote from: SGOS on August 03, 2019, 07:21:21 PM
Nice deflection.  I'm not surprised because no one actually knows God.  He's just a concept to which people assign whatever qualities they want.

I know the images of G-d, because I know people ... animals ... that is as close as one can get.  Prophets in profound trance claim more, but I doubt it.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

Quote from: SGOS on August 03, 2019, 07:21:21 PM
Nice deflection.  I'm not surprised because no one actually knows God.  He's just a concept to which people assign whatever qualities they want.

Just like morality etc.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

Quote from: Unbeliever on August 03, 2019, 07:58:53 PM
I know that, and you know that, but a billion Christians say we're wrong.

The Christians are wrong.  So are the Muslims and the Jews ...

Despise the peasants?
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

#396
Quote from: Hydra009 on August 03, 2019, 08:15:34 PM
If only there were some other law (or code) that prohibits murder and theft, especially one that predates the 10 commandments.  I can't quite think of one, but it's on the tip of my hammurabi.

Btw, if the only thing holding you back from raping and pillaging is some religious book, you might want to get your head checked.  Perhaps in a room that is properly barred and locked.

Nothing holds humanity back. Other than being too tired to do evil.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Absolute_Agent



Quote from: Hydra009 on August 03, 2019, 08:15:34 PM
If only there were some other law (or code) that prohibits murder and theft, especially one that predates the 10 commandments.  I can't quite think of one, but it's on the tip of my hammurabi.

Btw, if the only thing holding you back from raping and pillaging is some religious book, you might want to get your head checked.  Perhaps in a room that is properly barred and locked.

Religion suits me just fine, thanks for asking.  Hammurabi received his code from God.  If you believe humanity at large are angels in disguise who don't need laws that are enforced, try advocating the release of all criminals from prison and see how well that goes over.

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Hydra009

Quote from: Absolute_Agent on August 03, 2019, 09:22:28 PM

Religion suits me just fine, thanks for asking.
Aye, that it does. :wink:

QuoteHammurabi received his code from God.


QuoteIf you believe humanity at large are angels in disguise
Let's just say that I believe in The Better Angels of Our Nature while also acknowledging the violence still in our world.

Quotewho don't need laws that are enforced
Is that really what I'm arguing?  Or is it what you wish I was arguing?  Think carefully (for the first time).

Absolute_Agent

#399
Quote from: aitm on August 03, 2019, 02:11:25 PM
Bullshit. You're a liar or an idiot. History is nothing but killing people over religion. I think you're both.
Ok buddy, so as with @josephpalazzo you are confusing correlation with causation.  The fact that politicians, or military leaders use religion as a justification for war doesn't mean that religion justifies the war.  Wars are never fought over religion.  They are fought over resources--land, water, etc., If not, for other materialistic or practical causes.  Now the fact that every society in those wars had a particular religion, whether Christianity or paganism, doesn't mean those religions were the impetus for war, even if the leaders were spewing religious chants while they're fighting.  Sometimes religion was the rallying call that fired soldiers' emotions and helped demonize the enemy.  But religion itself does not cause war.  What causes war is a failure of communication.  Did religion cause the Civil War?  No, it was over resources.  Did religion cause WWII? No, it was fought over territory.  Did religion cause WWI? No, it was fought for political reasons.  Vietnam? N. Korea?  Nothing to do with religion.  The American revolution?  It was fought over a stamp tax, among other things.  Iraq Wars? Oil.  (WMDs were the propoganda catalyst).  Iraq-Iran War? Territory.  Spanish-American War? Territory. Mexican War? Territory.  Indian Wars? Territory.  And on and on.  Where did you study history anyway?

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Absolute_Agent



Quote from: Hydra009 on August 03, 2019, 09:33:57 PM
Aye, that it does. :wink:

Let's just say that I believe in The Better Angels of Our Nature while also acknowledging the violence still in our world.
Maybe you live in an idealistic bubble, you haven't studied the gruesome past.  I don't blame you it's hard to stomach.  Humans are still quite savage.  Religion in moderation does a lot of good keeping kids out of trouble, and personally I'd rather put up with goofy guys in ties knocking on the door with Bibles than say, motorcycle gangs driving down the street shooting AK-47's.  Wouldn't you?


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Hydra009

Quote from: Absolute_Agent on August 03, 2019, 10:06:19 PMMaybe you live in an idealistic bubble, you haven't studied the gruesome past.
Assumptions are fun (and often wrong).  And easy.  So very easy.  Very suitable for your capacity.

QuoteHumans are still quite savage.
No kidding.  I just read about a guy who was part of some doomsday cult that ultimately committed suicide en masse.  Quite savage.  Though it's interesting how much of this savagery was a learned thing rather than an innate behavior, wouldn't you agree?

QuoteReligion in moderation does a lot of good keeping kids out of trouble
aka, controlling society.  You and I are talking about the same thing in different words.  And does religion stop at allegedly putting a damper on theft and rape?  Can you think of any behaviors (or ideas) that are utterly harmless - perhaps even very beneficial - that are curtailed in the name of religion?

Quoteand personally I'd rather put up with goofy guys in ties knocking on the door with Bibles than say, motorcycle gangs driving down the street shooting AK-47's.  Wouldn't you?
Are those the only two options?  If so, then one wonders about the lawlessness of countries like Sweden and the Czech Republic.  They are lawless, right?

Absolute_Agent

Quote from: Hydra009 on August 03, 2019, 10:25:31 PM
Assumptions are fun (and often wrong).  And easy.  So very easy.  Very suitable for your capacity.
Like uniformitarianism?  Oh yeah, you dodged that topic.
Quote from: Hydra009 on August 03, 2019, 10:25:31 PM
No kidding.  I just read about a guy who was part of some doomsday cult that ultimately committed suicide en masse.  Quite savage.  Though it's interesting how much of this savagery was a learned thing rather than an innate behavior, wouldn't you agree?
Show me any religion that teaches suicide.  Cults don't count as they are by definition deviations from religious orthodoxy.
Quote from: Hydra009 on August 03, 2019, 10:25:31 PM
aka, controlling society.  You and I are talking about the same thing in different words.  And does religion stop at allegedly putting a damper on theft and rape?  Can you think of any behaviors (or ideas) that are utterly harmless - perhaps even very beneficial - that are curtailed in the name of religion?
Tell me, I'm all ears
Quote from: Hydra009 on August 03, 2019, 10:25:31 PM
Are those the only two options?  If so, then one wonders about the lawlessness of countries like Sweden and the Czech Republic.  They are lawless, right?
China, the largest atheist state, is quite law- abiding.  They also harvest organs from political dissidents involuntarily.

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josephpalazzo

Quote from: Absolute_Agent on August 03, 2019, 09:55:12 PM
Ok buddy, so as with @josephpalazzo you are confusing correlation with causation. 


There's no confusion. My post was about you being a useful idiot who  spreads religion for the benefits of those in power. You haven't answered my previous post because you know I'm right. You are a propagandist who is too stupid to realize that you are on the wrong forum. Only idiots like Baruch will agree with you.


Sal1981

Quote from: Unbeliever on August 03, 2019, 04:20:33 PM
I read a novel called "American Gods, about "the old gods" who are hardly believed in anymore, and "the new gods" who have more believers, and so are stronger than the old gods. Not a bad read, for fantasy.
The TV show on Amazon Prime American Gods is quite an entertaining watch. I remember seeing the first season last year. Have yet to get around watching 2nd season.


The gods in that are a lot more consistent than any gods offered up to the imaginations and machinations of people.