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Quest for Truth

Started by Absolute_Agent, June 16, 2019, 09:02:36 PM

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Baruch

Quote from: Unbeliever on August 03, 2019, 02:08:23 PM
But, since the god Shamash did not exist, then those laws all came from human minds. Or did the god Shamash actually exist to give those laws to Hammurabi?

If anything good ever happened, it must have been an atheist?  The point isn't, does Anu or Enki exist.  But what was King Hammurabi thinking?  He wasn't thinking like Voltaire.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

Quote from: aitm on August 03, 2019, 02:11:25 PM
Bullshit. You're a liar or an idiot. History is nothing but killing people over religion. I think you're both.

And a few atheists killing people ... until the 20th century, when there were substantially more atheists, who could kill.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

Quote from: Absolute_Agent on August 03, 2019, 02:16:27 PM
Shamash was one of our ancient alien progenitor races, worshipped as gods out of ignorance. That's why I used a lowercase "g".

Sent from my moto e5 play using Tapatalk

No ancient astronauts or Annunaki aliens.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Mike Cl

Quote from: Baruch on August 03, 2019, 07:56:43 PM
A mystical story.  Not literal at all.  Non-mystics can't talk competently about it.  If you don't share experience, communication is impossible in any language.  The content of the communication isn't in the language, but in triggering similar experiences.  Most people here (even me) have experienced atheism internally.  This happened with me  20-30 years old.  I had weak religion before that, so it wasn't traumatic to drop it.
I see that as THE problem--people taking religion literally.  I do think non-mystics can talk about it.  Joseph Campbell did with his telling of the value and use of myths, rites of passage, and understanding life through myths and rites of passage.  The Aesop way of teaching is effective and that is much of what I see the Jesus of the bible is all about.  The Gospel of Thomas is an illustration of that.  But the literalists and fundamentalists make religion dangerous and counter-productive.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Baruch

Quote from: Mike Cl on August 03, 2019, 02:31:02 PM
Once again, you skirt the issue and the questions.  You did not answer any of the questions I put to you.  Maybe you could do that--or maybe you don't really have any answers to give.  When a person is an atheist, does merely looking at a bible strike them blind?  I would venture to say that I have read a bible from cover to cover--I would suggest most of those who profess to be christian have not done that. 

As for your suggestion that satan worshipers kill children has been debunked long ago.  But gullible theists like yourself (theists who don't check out facts all that well or often) still believe they do.  And I would suggest the members of the Church of Satan would not call themselves atheists.  After all, your god created Satan--as well as the Moloch.  If they did sacrifice children then it was because they were created with that capacity--and if god were really that adamant about them changing, he could do that in a heartbeat.  But no, he would rather sate his own bloodlust through his 'chosen'--whom he created as well.

He is using a loose definition of satanism and atheism.  As polemics.  Clearly the LeVay church doesn't do much of anything.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

#380
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 03, 2019, 08:41:32 PM
I see that as THE problem--people taking religion literally.  I do think non-mystics can talk about it.  Joseph Campbell did with his telling of the value and use of myths, rites of passage, and understanding life through myths and rites of passage.  The Aesop way of teaching is effective and that is much of what I see the Jesus of the bible is all about.  The Gospel of Thomas is an illustration of that.  But the literalists and fundamentalists make religion dangerous and counter-productive.

Everyone takes everything literally.  Less than 1% take things allegorically, and the guardians of religion piss on that, because interpretation by allegory is inconsistent.  A false consistency, particularly with Protestants, is achieved by sola scriptura .
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Mike Cl

Quote from: Baruch on August 03, 2019, 08:41:52 PM
He is using a loose definition of satanism and atheism.  As polemics.  Clearly the LeVay church doesn't do much of anything.
Yeah, I agree with that.  But I think he is using a loose definition for everything.  And the only filters that count are the ones that reside in him.  That's fine--he (or anyone) can believe just about anything they want.  But don't come to a board that is the opposite of what one thinks and not expect, at the very least, some explanation of what he believes and why.  Absolute absolutely ducks all the hard questions. 
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Baruch

Quote from: Mike Cl on August 03, 2019, 08:41:32 PM
I see that as THE problem--people taking religion literally.  I do think non-mystics can talk about it.  Joseph Campbell did with his telling of the value and use of myths, rites of passage, and understanding life through myths and rites of passage.  The Aesop way of teaching is effective and that is much of what I see the Jesus of the bible is all about.  The Gospel of Thomas is an illustration of that.  But the literalists and fundamentalists make religion dangerous and counter-productive.

He is using a loose definition of satanism and atheism.  As polemics.  Clearly the LeVay church doesn't do much of anything.  Aesop was executed by the people of Delphi for blasphemy.  They tossed him off the top of the nearby mountain.  Campbell was a mystic, a rare bird in any age.

There are degrees of religious participation ...

1. Shaman - the mystics
2. Clergy - the management
3. Laity - the hoi polloi

The problem is with #2 and #3, which is pretty much everybody,.

For example, just this week, in finding Christian theological predecessors in Hinduism ... I could see it now.  Not before.  Wasn't looking in the right places, and farther back not mature enough.  Allegorical anaysis ... is what I am doing.  Even substitutionary atonement is there.  Not just the Trinity.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

Quote from: Unbeliever on August 03, 2019, 02:43:53 PM
I don't see how we're supposed to believe someone who claims they've had a "revelation from God." How are we to know they're not lying or mistaken? Especially when their "revelation" is the polar opposite of "revelations" given by God to other people?

Correct .. disbelieve everyone.  Why trust monkeys?  Final step, disbelieve yourself.  You are a poo tosser too.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Mike Cl

Quote from: Baruch on August 03, 2019, 08:43:22 PM
Everyone takes everything literally.  Less than 1% take things allegorically, and the guardians of religion piss on that, because interpretation by allegory is inconsistent.  A false consistency, particularly with Protestants, is achieve by sola scripture.
I guess I fit into that 1%, for much of life can only be figured out allegorically.  Campbell probes that area quiet well.  Women Who Run With The Wolves (forget the author--Pinkett maybe???) deals with allegory and fairy tales very well.  Gibran does the same with poetry, and while I'm not much into poetry, I have read and re-read The Prophet for ages.  Allegory--the stuff of life! 

BTW, Charles Fillmore (Unity Chruch) wrote the Metaphysical Bible Dictionary; reading the bible in one hand, that book in the other was the only time that book (the bible) made a lick of sense.  Allegory, allegory--love it.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Baruch

#385
Quote from: Absolute_Agent on August 03, 2019, 03:09:04 PM
There is no 100% accurate Bible today, I affirm that.  But blaming it on God is foolishness. 

Sent from my moto e5 play using Tapatalk

Why not?  The mother of the Egyptian who found the Nag Hammadi codices, was burning them as starter fuel for the kitchen fire, when he was still looking for a buyer.  The monks at St Catherine on Sinai were doing the same to the oldest Bible manuscripts.  Fortunately it doesn't matter.  Scripture is a red herring.  If your deity isn't alive here and now, that deity is useless.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

Quote from: Sal1981 on August 03, 2019, 03:32:33 PM
I didn't realize that truth was a dick-measuring contest.

Don't tell the women!
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

Quote from: aitm on August 03, 2019, 03:47:09 PM
Scientists don't normally go around killing those who refuse to believe. Christians and Muslims are quite fond of it.

Engineers of Zyklon B.  So you virtue signal for engineers?  Bad move ...
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

#388
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 03, 2019, 04:13:45 PM
Ahhh--yeah.  Now I see.  It is really a god competition.  Which ever god is the most popular is the winner.  Yea, God!!

That works for politics.  Usually the god followers with the largest/most effective military.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

Quote from: Unbeliever on August 03, 2019, 04:20:33 PM
I read a novel called "American Gods, about "the old gods" who are hardly believed in anymore, and "the new gods" who have more believers, and so are stronger than the old gods. Not a bad read, for fantasy.

American Christianity is a new religion .. not just Mormonism.  The latest from 1890s is Capitalist Jesus.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.