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Quest for Truth

Started by Absolute_Agent, June 16, 2019, 09:02:36 PM

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Absolute_Agent

Quote from: Baruch on August 03, 2019, 12:57:29 PM
You don't read Hebrew and Greek??  Scandalous.
Touché.

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Unbeliever

Quote from: Absolute_Agent on August 03, 2019, 10:10:55 AM
Let me help you with that:

1.  Remove 10 Commandments.  Result: Murder is legal, including human sacrifice and cannibalism.  Theft is legal, property law is abolished.  The most ruthless and bloodthirsty rule by default.  Marriage abolished, meaning women are left to deal with offspring on their own, many of which do not survive.  Society collapses as there is no civil order, and thus no commerce or industry is possible.  We return to a hunter-gatherer society of small roaming tribal groups, each with its own gods and constantly battling over resources and perpetual grievances. Perjury is legal meaning the courts become irrelevant and you must personally fight to resolve any infringement of your rights, or hope your family will do so.  Eventually it's simply question of which tribe can exterminate the others before they get exterminated--you know, "survival of the fittest." There's a little snapshot for you of what the world looks like without organized religion. 


So you believe that without religion no human-made laws would be possible? Have you never heard of the Code of Hammurabi?

And that's just one outstanding example. Religion is not needed for humans to realize that laws and their enforcement are necessary.
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Absolute_Agent

Quote from: Unbeliever on August 03, 2019, 01:18:45 PM
So, Eve ate some fruit and suddenly all the animals on Earth started eating each other? Can't you see how ridiculous that sounds to those of us who are outside your faith? Can you look at your faith from outside, as we do, and still not see why we don't believe it?
I sympathize with your incredulity.  It was probably more of a gradual shift rather than sudden.  The fact remains though, if you believed Genesis 1:30, wouldn't you kill less animals?  And wouldn't it resolve Mike CI's dilemma if everyone did that, resulting in a happier, more peaceful world?  I'm a firm believer in the proof's in the pudding.

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Absolute_Agent

#318
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 03, 2019, 01:21:07 PM
So it's the scriptures you have faith in, not the God they portray. Why do you believe the scriptures you've read are reliable avenues to Truth?

Quote from: Absolute_Agent on August 03, 2019, 11:49:02 AM
The content.  I always judge content first.  Fiction denotes falsehood.  You can't know something is false simply because the evidence doesn't add up.  You can only know for certain is that it hasn't been proved true.  This is the only logical position in your case, going strictly by scientific standards.  In my case, the content is more important than the mode in which it was transmitted.  If it produces good results, then it is true enough.  If not, then I start digging.  And that's what I have done.  That's how I prove it to myself, because this is the standard that matters most to me.  I'm not overly interested in scientific methods unless they're playing a supporting role for a larger objective.  This is because I don't consider science as being capable of ever arriving at ultimate reality! [emoji16]

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The scriptures are instructions sent by God.  Truth is not attained except through revelation.

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Absolute_Agent

#319
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 03, 2019, 01:30:42 PM

So you believe that without religion no human-made laws would be possible? Have you never heard of the Code of Hammurabi?

And that's just one outstanding example. Religion is not needed for humans to realize that laws and their enforcement are necessary.
I don't see that humans could develop to the same level of advancement in jurisprudence through reason alone. Revelation is necessary for enlightened society.  Yet reason is not to be discarded, as it is a necessary tool in the proper application of revealed truth.  Both are meant to be used in conjunction.  Could man develop laws on his own?  Maybe, but nowhere near what he is capable of with divine assistance.  Wouldn't you know it...  Hammurabi received his code from the god Shamash.

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Unbeliever

Quote from: Absolute_Agent on August 03, 2019, 10:10:55 AM
Let me help you with that:

1.  Remove 10 Commandments.  Result: Murder is legal, including human sacrifice and cannibalism.  Theft is legal, property law is abolished.  The most ruthless and bloodthirsty rule by default.  Marriage abolished, meaning women are left to deal with offspring on their own, many of which do not survive.  Society collapses as there is no civil order, and thus no commerce or industry is possible.  We return to a hunter-gatherer society of small roaming tribal groups, each with its own gods and constantly battling over resources and perpetual grievances. Perjury is legal meaning the courts become irrelevant and you must personally fight to resolve any infringement of your rights, or hope your family will do so.  Eventually it's simply question of which tribe can exterminate the others before they get exterminated--you know, "survival of the fittest." There's a little snapshot for you of what the world looks like without organized religion. 


Which 10 Commandments? The ones at Exodus 20:1-17? Or the ones at Exodus 34:14-26?

Only the latter set are actually referred to "in scripture" as "the ten commandments" : Exodus 34:28
QuoteAnd he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.


So I hope you've never seethed a kid in its mother's milk.
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Unbeliever

Quote from: Baruch on August 03, 2019, 11:29:57 AM
All scripture is fiction, is man made.  Inspired?  That is the question.  For libertines, any writing that doesn't say ... go and do whatever you feel like ... is Nazis.

Yeah, Alistair Crowley said, "Do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the law."

Was he a "libertine"?
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Unbeliever

Quote from: Absolute_Agent on August 03, 2019, 01:16:48 PM
An atheist quoting scripture... Poignant.  What you fail to mention is that the tribes ordered to be exterminated were worshippers of Moloch--child sacrificers.  Not only that they were violating territorial boundaries by settling in the land of Israel. Do you wish they were still around today?  Well, look no more.  Here's the logical conclusion of atheism:
So, Jephthah didn't sacrifice his daughter to God?
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Unbeliever

Quote from: Absolute_Agent on August 03, 2019, 01:33:49 PM
The scriptures are instructions sent by God.  Truth is not attained except through revelation.

But God is not the author of confusion, according to 1Corinthians 14:33:
QuoteFor God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

and yet the Bible is the single most confusing piece of literature ever written! That's why there are, according to the World Christian Encyclopedia, more than 30,000 different Christian denominations all claiming their religion is straight from the Bible.
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Unbeliever

Quote from: Absolute_Agent on August 03, 2019, 01:43:17 PM
I don't see that humans could develop to the same level of advancement in jurisprudence through reason alone.[/quote'


Oh, I get it, YOU don't see it, so obviously it could never be done. Riiiight.
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Unbeliever

Quote from: Absolute_Agent on August 03, 2019, 01:43:17 PM
Wouldn't you know it...  Hammurabi received his code from the god Shamash.

But, since the god Shamash did not exist, then those laws all came from human minds. Or did the god Shamash actually exist to give those laws to Hammurabi?
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

aitm

Quote from: Absolute_Agent on August 03, 2019, 10:17:11 AM
That's a wild distortion.  There has never been a period of history where any culture has not had to take up the sword for mere survival--religion or no religion.   The sword does not pertain to religion--rather it pertains to the nature of life on Earth.


Bullshit. You're a liar or an idiot. History is nothing but killing people over religion. I think you're both.


A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Absolute_Agent

Quote from: Unbeliever on August 03, 2019, 01:54:32 PM
So, Jephthah didn't sacrifice his daughter to God?
A tragic example of human folly.  We don't see anywhere that God commanded Jepthah to do this, or that He was even consulted.  However we do have in the Bible commands to the Israelites not to cause your sons to pass through the fire (Lev. 7:21) clearly indicating God never approved of child sacrifice.

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/10937-moloch-molech

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Absolute_Agent

#328
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 03, 2019, 02:08:23 PM
But, since the god Shamash did not exist, then those laws all came from human minds. Or did the god Shamash actually exist to give those laws to Hammurabi?
Shamash was one of our ancient alien progenitor races, worshipped as gods out of ignorance. That's why I used a lowercase "g".

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aitm

Quote from: Absolute_Agent on August 03, 2019, 02:16:27 PM
Shamash was one of our ancient alien progenitor races, mistakenly worshipped as gods. That's why I used a lowercase "g".

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LOLOLOL......jebus on a cracker....what a nut job.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust