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Quest for Truth

Started by Absolute_Agent, June 16, 2019, 09:02:36 PM

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Absolute_Agent

Quote from: Baruch on June 19, 2019, 12:35:25 AM
The Jewish scripture does describe G-d as jealous!  But all writing, all scripture, is a dead thing, compared to the living idea.  This is why in the book Fahrenheit 451, people fight censorship, by memorizing the book, they become the book.  A religion starts to die, as soon as it is put to paper.  The living experience of the religion, that is the living thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMBu6RUMJg0

What are words?  Semaphores that allow two sentient beings to communicate.  If I have been fishing, and you have been fishing, then even though we didn't go fishing together, we can share our fishing stories.  If either of us hasn't gone fishing, then the dictionary definition is weak soup.  Yes, actual thoughts are living things, because they come from living beings.  Words are tools of expression, they aren't the things themselves.  The word "fish" isn't alive, it doesn't stink dead in the sun shine.
Yes, but today G-d has no other gods to be jealous of since all the others have been destroyed, thanks to Islam.

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Baruch

#136
Bad news ... Michael Laitman isn't an ordained rabbi.  He does run the largest cult group in Israel ... it takes more than a good beard ;-(

https://www.en.applebaum.org.il/what-is-bnei-baruch/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI39LlyYf14gIViMVkCh0mGAIbEAAYASAAEgJcG_D_BwE

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Laitman

I have a book by this guy ... an actual ordained rabbi ...

https://www.chabad.org/search/keyword_cdo/kid/1068/jewish/Laibl-Wolf.htm

Lots of videos on YouTube.

There have been some great rabbis in my time, but most of them have passed on.  Historically, I like Rabbi Nachman of Breslov who lived 200 years ago.  Here is ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K2x5YXw9GI

Abraham Joshua Heschel was the real deal.

Left you a gift in the Islam section of this web site.  there is a lot of truth in Islam ;-)  Particularly Sufis.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Absolute_Agent

Quote from: Baruch on June 19, 2019, 03:55:58 AM
Bad news ... Michael Laitman isn't an ordained rabbi.  He does run the largest cult group in Israel ... it takes more than a good beard ;-(

https://www.en.applebaum.org.il/what-is-bnei-baruch/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI39LlyYf14gIViMVkCh0mGAIbEAAYASAAEgJcG_D_BwE

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Laitman

I have a book by this guy ... an actual ordained rabbi ...

https://www.chabad.org/search/keyword_cdo/kid/1068/jewish/Laibl-Wolf.htm

Lots of videos on YouTube.

There have been some great rabbis in my time, but most of them have passed on.  Historically, I like Rabbi Nachman of Breslov who lived 200 years ago.  Here is ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K2x5YXw9GI

Abraham Joshua Heschel was the real deal.

Left you a gift in the Islam section of this web site.  there is a lot of truth in Islam ;-)  Particularly Sufis.
Rav. Yeshua was also a "cult" leader; more often than not the vehicle of truth is an outcast from the establishment.

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Baruch

#138
Quote from: Absolute_Agent on June 19, 2019, 05:00:34 AM
Rav. Yeshua was also a "cult" leader; more often than not the vehicle of truth is an outcast from the establishment.

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True.  If you don't consider "cult" to be pejorative.  AJH was one of the most reasonable yet religious rabbis of the 20th century.  Not every outsider is a bringer of light, Lenin for example.

Another real deal ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z_1dING_uI

There is just one major thing I have against Islam ... the hatred they have for the human voice, hatred of music.  Music is only allowed in Islam because they can't kill it.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Mike Cl

Quote from: Absolute_Agent on June 18, 2019, 10:04:04 PM


God: the incomprehensible, the immanent, transcendent eternal absolute sovereign of all worlds and realities, the Sublime, the Self-existent, the Abundantly Merciful, omnipotent, omniscient, Originator; Prime Source (An inexhaustive definition for that Infinite Being which is inherently undefinable and greater than all).

That is a very slippery definition of a god.  I see no evidence who-so-ever of that type of being or force to exist.  But I do see evidence to the opposite.  For example--you say god is 'Abundantly Merciful'.  Let's look at nature.  I don't see mercy reflected there.  I'm sure your god has a provision against killing, yet he created humans so that they had to kill to live; they have no choice.  Plants live thru the process of photosynthesis and therefore gather all their energy from the sun.  All animals have to either kill plants or other animals to gather energy to live.  Spiders kill and eat flies alive; lions kill and eat gazelles--I see much pain and suffering in that process.  How can a merciful god or entity produce such a system when it could have designed it in any way it chose to?  I count that as evidence against there being such a thing. 

Your god does not exist and was proposed by people who knew how to exploit your type of god (or any god for that matter).  Your scriptures (and all others) are a man made fiction as is your god.   
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Hakurei Reimu

Quote from: Absolute_Agent on June 18, 2019, 03:55:09 PM
And I don't intend to [present evidence], since that would violate your free will...
Quote from: Absolute_Agent on June 18, 2019, 06:00:07 PM
I did present evidence--the scriptures, which you rejected, as was your choice.
So, you both refuse to present evidence for the existence of God, and then then say you did present evidence for the existence of God, which is the scriptures. Sorry, chum, that's a contradiction. You either don't want to violate our free wills, or you do and have actively tried to violate our free wills. You either don't want to present evidence, or you do and have done so.
Warning: Don't Tease The Miko!
(she bites!)
Spinny Miko Avatar shamelessly ripped off from Iosys' Neko Miko Reimu

Blackleaf

Quote from: Absolute_Agent on June 18, 2019, 11:24:47 PM
Definitions are fluid things, always in motion, like life.  When something stops changing, it dies, including language.  This is why I avoid them until it becomes unavoidable.  Like schroedinger's cat, not defining things allows one to layer multiple simultaneous layers of meaning into one's communication, focusing on that which is pertinent the moment it naturally presents itself.

All the attributes mentioned except 6, I would ascribe to God, with the caveat that the list is not comprehensive, as a defining characteristic of God is to be outside all human comprehension.  This follows logically as He is the Creator of comprehension itself.  This is part of His attribute of transcendence.

Yeah, that's pretty much exactly how Christians tend to describe God too. Some of them know that the Bible clearly states that God is jealous, and try to redefine the word so it doesn't seem as bad, but most won't outright admit that the Old Testament God was very easily offended by his polytheistic Hebrew followers when they'd worship other gods in addition to him.

I think you forgot to pick a definition for free will.
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville--

Absolute_Agent

#142
Quote from: Hakurei Reimu on June 19, 2019, 10:46:21 AM
So, you both refuse to present evidence for the existence of God, and then then say you did present evidence for the existence of God, which is the scriptures. Sorry, chum, that's a contradiction. You either don't want to violate our free wills, or you do and have actively tried to violate our free wills. You either don't want to present evidence, or you do and have done so.
No what I referred to is "I don't intend to [make an argument for the existence of God]".  I presented evidence for God but it was part of a different argument, over free will, in which the existence of God was a premise, not a conclusion.  As previously stated the existence of God, in my communication, is always a premise, never an argument.  An argument implies compulsion, thus, to argue for God's existence would violate the free will of someone who had not accepted it as a premise.  As a premise though, it can be either accepted or rejected freely.

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Absolute_Agent

Quote from: Blackleaf on June 19, 2019, 10:55:59 AM
Yeah, that's pretty much exactly how Christians tend to describe God too. Some of them know that the Bible clearly states that God is jealous, and try to redefine the word so it doesn't seem as bad, but most won't outright admit that the Old Testament God was very easily offended by his polytheistic Hebrew followers when they'd worship other gods in addition to him.

I think you forgot to pick a definition for free will.
God has no reason to be jealous since all false gods have been destroyed.  I didn't forget to pick a definition for free will.  I gave you my definition, and what you suggested as two definitions is merely the difference between free will, and the doctrine of free will, an unnecessary distinction.

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Absolute_Agent



Quote from: Mike Cl on June 19, 2019, 09:48:29 AM
How can a merciful god or entity produce such a system when it could have designed it in any way it chose to?

Did you want an answer to this question or was it merely rhetorical?


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Absolute_Agent

Quote from: Baruch on June 19, 2019, 05:53:48 AM
True.  If you don't consider "cult" to be pejorative.  AJH was one of the most reasonable yet religious rabbis of the 20th century.  Not every outsider is a bringer of light, Lenin for example.

Another real deal ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z_1dING_uI

There is just one major thing I have against Islam ... the hatred they have for the human voice, hatred of music.  Music is only allowed in Islam because they can't kill it.
When one delves into sincere Islamic worship the love for Allah is so intense that music becomes an unwanted distraction.  Furthermore it promotes much corruption.

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josephpalazzo

Quote from: Absolute_Agent on June 19, 2019, 12:03:22 PM

Did you want an answer to this question or was it merely rhetorical?


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It was a question, and since you can't answer, CHECKMATE.

Absolute_Agent



Quote from: josephpalazzo on June 19, 2019, 12:27:13 PM
and since you can't answer.
This is an incorrect assertion.  Do you still desire an answer?



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josephpalazzo

Quote from: Absolute_Agent on June 19, 2019, 12:30:40 PM
This is an incorrect assertion.  Do you still desire an answer?



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You don't have an answer, otherwise you would have given it a long time ago. You're just a troll looking for attention. I guess your mother did not give you enough attention. Pity.

Absolute_Agent

Quote from: josephpalazzo on June 19, 2019, 01:18:48 PM
You don't have an answer, otherwise you would have given it a long time ago. You're just a troll looking for attention. I guess your mother did not give you enough attention. Pity.
If you insist on making unfounded assumptions then I see no possibility for any productive discussion, and I can only conclude that you are not actually looking for an answer to that question.

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