Author Topic: Quest for Truth  (Read 11472 times)

Quest for Truth
« on: June 16, 2019, 09:02:36 PM »
Assalamualaikum and salutations to all.  I am a freethinking theist and truth-seeker.  Raised by fundamentalist sola-scriptura Protestant Christian parents in an interdenominational environment, I studied the Bible deeply until it led me to the inevitable conclusion that there was more to reality than the simplistic formulas hypnotically chanted from the pulpits; and, at the age of 20, finding no other recourse, I embarked on a spontaneous, self-directed search for ultimate truth, within myself and amongst the religions of the world, following nothing but my gut instincts and individual rational process. 

My departure from Christianity began with the Bhagavad Gita.  From there I progressed through Buddhism and Jewish mysticism.  Although many things resonated with me and still do among these traditions, the culmination of my quest was my discovery of Islam--the prince of religions, in 2010. 

Upon my testimony of la ilaha illa'allah, Muhammadar-rasoulullah, I achieved a state of mental clarity and stability, initiating the resolution of deeply troubling questions and the establishment of sustained inner peace, and a previously unknown radiating outflow of pure undiluted joy.

Having arrived on the straight path to eternal bliss, and having properly organized nearly all the previously distended affairs of my life, I am now in the phase of branching out, seeking to share what is within, enhance my knowledge through broad interaction, and plant the seeds of felicity among my fellow men.  Joining this forum is a part of that continuing objective in which I hope to enjoy with all the journey of mutual discovery through the Socratic method established so long ago in our civilization.

With that in mind it is self-evident that a discourse among a wide variety of cultures and predispositions is most advantageous to the cultivation of authentic knowledge and it is to this noble end that I invite you, my fellow travelers in Earth life, to join me.

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Re: Quest for Truth
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2019, 09:31:17 PM »
Besides it's true that Christianity is more ridiculous than Islam, It isn't the answer.

I think you are doing what is called in Islamic terminology ''takiyye''... It means roughly ''hypocricy'' or ''engaging in deception''...

You have never been a Christion, right?

Offline Hijiri Byakuren

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Re: Quest for Truth
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2019, 10:14:31 PM »
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I am a freethinking theist and truth-seeker.
No, you're a hardcore Muslim. You literally opened your post with the cultish greeting only your ilk use.

You use a lot of flowery language in your post. That alone is a red flag indicating you came here with the intent to proselytize, not engage in honest discussion.

The fact that you are happy with your religion is no more to the point than the fact that a drunk man is happier than a sober man.
"Existence is beautiful, if you let it be. Life is not a question. There does not need to be an answer."
- No Man's Sky

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Offline Baruch

Re: Quest for Truth
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2019, 10:16:03 PM »
Copywrite violation!  You are the freethinking theist? ... no I am the freethinking theist ... and on it goes at the celestial court ;-)

Welcome also.

BTW I am pro-Muslim, because I am pro-everyone.  Even pro-Atheist.  Your path thru theology is remarkably similar to mine.  Speaking of Hinduism ... are you my reincarnation or are you mine?  ;-))
« Last Edit: June 16, 2019, 10:19:17 PM by Baruch »
Zampa xiquihto.  Amo nimitzcuamachilia.
Say it again.  I don't understand you.

Re: Quest for Truth
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2019, 10:35:30 PM »
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Besides it's true that Christianity is more ridiculous than Islam, It isn't the answer.

I think you are doing what is called in Islamic terminology ''takiyye''... It means roughly ''hypocricy'' or ''engaging in deception''...

You have never been a Christion, right?
I had little choice growing up but to practice Christianity.  It always felt like something forced upon me rather than chosen.  I loved the Bible however and the more I learned the more it was apparent that Christian dogma was deviant in certain ways from the teachings of Christ and the Bible in general. 

As for taqqiyya, it is permitted to use deception, when one's life is threatened, to escape danger.  Besides that, dishonesty is forbidden in Islam.  However as you can see I am freely sharing my opinions as is everyone else--one of the blessings of a democratic system.

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Re: Quest for Truth
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2019, 10:41:21 PM »
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No, you're a hardcore Muslim. You literally opened your post with the cultish greeting only your ilk use.

You use a lot of flowery language in your post. That alone is a red flag indicating you came here with the intent to proselytize, not engage in honest discussion.

The fact that you are happy with your religion is no more to the point than the fact that a drunk man is happier than a sober man.
Yes I am 100% Muslim and also a freethinking theist.  And yes, I am happy with my religion. My flag is not only red, but red white and blue.  God bless America.

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Offline Baruch

Re: Quest for Truth
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2019, 10:58:46 PM »
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I had little choice growing up but to practice Christianity.  It always felt like something forced upon me rather than chosen.  I loved the Bible however and the more I learned the more it was apparent that Christian dogma was deviant in certain ways from the teachings of Christ and the Bible in general. 

As for taqqiyya, it is permitted to use deception, when one's life is threatened, to escape danger.  Besides that, dishonesty is forbidden in Islam.  However as you can see I am freely sharing my opinions as is everyone else--one of the blessings of a democratic system.

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Correct.  But don't expect a lack of prejudice from anyone, not even me.  I was not raised to be religious.  Became so as an adult.  Many here are ex-religious and were raised as religious.  That is a whole other process compared to coming to religion as an adult.

Christianity has a quite complicated theology, it has taken me decades to partly understand it as an adult.  If one enters Christianity as a child, then as a rebellious teen/young adult, one is likely to jettison this along with much else.  To really appreciated Christianity (or any other vast cultural system) one has to be extensively trained in it.  Islam is quite a bit simpler as a theology.  And makes universal claims that Judaism does not.  Oh the other hand, Hinduism in general, and Buddhism in particular, are much more mind-conscious.  Again, Buddhism can be universal in a way that Hinduism cannot.  Though ethnic Buddhism is quite common, just a ethnic Islam is (the general claim of superiority by Arabs for example).

About myself ... originally I was secular but interested in the metaphysical.  I got into Buddhism in HS.  Then became an atheist for the next decade.  I fell in love with, and married a Christian.  In that context, I merged with her in non-physical ways ;-)  I had to continue to develop, just as she continued to develop.  That was while we were married for almost 20 years.  I found a human god, thru a human.  My humanity had developed from what I once was, I was less a geek and more like the majority.  While still married, I drifted into Jewish Christianity.  It seemed more "rooted" to me.  After the end of my marriage, I resumed my interaction with a wider humanity.  And my "comparative religion" POV strongly developed.  I would consider myself to be post-religion in ways others consider themselves post-modern.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2019, 11:00:19 PM by Baruch »
Zampa xiquihto.  Amo nimitzcuamachilia.
Say it again.  I don't understand you.

Re: Quest for Truth
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2019, 11:28:03 PM »
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Correct.  But don't expect a lack of prejudice from anyone, not even me.  I was not raised to be religious.  Became so as an adult.  Many here are ex-religious and were raised as religious.  That is a whole other process compared to coming to religion as an adult.

Christianity has a quite complicated theology, it has taken me decades to partly understand it as an adult.  If one enters Christianity as a child, then as a rebellious teen/young adult, one is likely to jettison this along with much else.  To really appreciated Christianity (or any other vast cultural system) one has to be extensively trained in it.  Islam is quite a bit simpler as a theology.  And makes universal claims that Judaism does not.  Oh the other hand, Hinduism in general, and Buddhism in particular, are much more mind-conscious.  Again, Buddhism can be universal in a way that Hinduism cannot.  Though ethnic Buddhism is quite common, just a ethnic Islam is (the general claim of superiority by Arabs for example).

About myself ... originally I was secular but interested in the metaphysical.  I got into Buddhism in HS.  Then became an atheist for the next decade.  I fell in love with, and married a Christian.  In that context, I merged with her in non-physical ways ;-)  I had to continue to develop, just as she continued to develop.  That was while we were married for almost 20 years.  I found a human god, thru a human.  My humanity had developed from what I once was, I was less a geek and more like the majority.  While still married, I drifted into Jewish Christianity.  It seemed more "rooted" to me.  After the end of my marriage, I resumed my interaction with a wider humanity.  And my "comparative religion" POV strongly developed.  I would consider myself to be post-religion in ways others consider themselves post-modern.
A pleasure meeting you and indeed we seem to have many similarities in philosophical orientation.  Perhaps we are in the same soul family.

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Online Hydra009

Re: Quest for Truth
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2019, 11:56:59 PM »
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Yes I am 100% Muslim and also a freethinking theist.
In that case, I'm a theistic atheist about to buy a half box of round square donuts with an odd yet also even amount of Quatloos.

Offline Baruch

Re: Quest for Truth
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2019, 12:28:21 AM »
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In that case, I'm a theistic atheist about to buy a half box of round square donuts with an odd yet also even amount of Quatloos.

So, part of the Dischordian religion then.
Zampa xiquihto.  Amo nimitzcuamachilia.
Say it again.  I don't understand you.

Offline Mr.Obvious

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Re: Quest for Truth
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2019, 12:31:48 AM »
Welcome
"If we have to go down, we go down together!"
- Your mum, requesting 69 last night.

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Re: Quest for Truth
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2019, 01:27:54 AM »
Welcome. I'm a semirecent Christian to atheist deconvert. I abhor religions, especially Christianity and Islam. You may find that a few people here don't like Muslims. I personally have little trouble separating the religion from the person, so I don't have a problem with you yet. Don't think that means I won't call you on your bullshit, though. I call it as I see it.

I agree with Hijiri's assessment. You can't be both Muslim and a freethinker. You might have come to Islam by your own accord, and you may think you have logical reasons for doing so. But by subscribing to a religion, that means you submitted your mental faculties to the authority figures and community of that religion. You didn't break free of Christianity. You just traded one authority for another. You were so close to figuring it out, but I guess for some people, it is easier to change their interpretation of God than to dump him entirely.

Now Baruch, he is what I'd describe as a freethinking theist. He's weird, and it's almost impossible to figure out what he really thinks, but he makes up his own mind. He doesn't subscribe to some holy text or religious leader. He doesn't even belong to any specific religion, and I've seen him arguing multiple times that God is an asshole. I think that makes him a misotheist? I dunno. But my point is that everything he believes, he came up with by himself.
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Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
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Re: Quest for Truth
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2019, 02:52:58 AM »
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Welcome. I'm a semirecent Christian to atheist deconvert. I abhor religions, especially Christianity and Islam. You may find that a few people here don't like Muslims. I personally have little trouble separating the religion from the person, so I don't have a problem with you yet. Don't think that means I won't call you on your bullshit, though. I call it as I see it.

I agree with Hijiri's assessment. You can't be both Muslim and a freethinker. You might have come to Islam by your own accord, and you may think you have logical reasons for doing so. But by subscribing to a religion, that means you submitted your mental faculties to the authority figures and community of that religion. You didn't break free of Christianity. You just traded one authority for another. You were so close to figuring it out, but I guess for some people, it is easier to change their interpretation of God than to dump him entirely.

Now Baruch, he is what I'd describe as a freethinking theist. He's weird, and it's almost impossible to figure out what he really thinks, but he makes up his own mind. He doesn't subscribe to some holy text or religious leader. He doesn't even belong to any specific religion, and I've seen him arguing multiple times that God is an asshole. I think that makes him a misotheist? I dunno. But my point is that everything he believes, he came up with by himself.
I find that I am free through submitting my mental and physical faculties to the originator, the fashioner and designer of such faculties.  Some think that in order to be free you must have absolute license, or that freedom is like a blank check to do whatever you please that someone hands you.  However my definition of freedom is that it is a state of being in which one is in conformity to one's reason for existence, which necessarily involves limits, which limits do not cut out goodness but rather cultivate more goodness by the avoidance of harmful excesses to which all are prone...  Furthermore it is not something merely inherited; each generation, each individual, possesses the right to freedom but cannot come into that right or enjoy without constant effort. This is in accord with our essential natures.  Freedom always requires struggle--something in Islam called "jihad".

However I can understand why, not believing in the existence of a Creator, my position would appear as nonsense to you.  Or, assuming that the Allah of Islam stays inside the box constructed around Him by Christians, you would mistakenly imagine Him to be a petty tyrant who allows no intellectual endeavor, or who cannot tolerate creativity.  What I find however is that Islam was more effective in liberating my consciousness then a mere negation of Christianity and religion itself, because it replaced a false idea of God with that which befits His transcendent majesty. He is more, not less, of all those values I hold dear including freedom, dignity and intelligence.

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Offline Baruch

Re: Quest for Truth
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2019, 04:07:16 AM »
What about the box that Muslims put Allah in?  The daughters of Allah for example ...

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G-d has no gender and is all genders.  In many ways, as we understand birth today, a creator doesn't lean male, but female.  The role of Virgin Mary is something Christianity has over Islam and Judaism.  But only if one admits that Judaism and Christianity also arose out of polytheism.

And monotheism has to be taken with irony, since all monotheism is derivative of polytheism ... it begs the question.

Zampa xiquihto.  Amo nimitzcuamachilia.
Say it again.  I don't understand you.

Offline Baruch

Re: Quest for Truth
« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2019, 04:09:04 AM »
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Welcome. I'm a semirecent Christian to atheist deconvert. I abhor religions, especially Christianity and Islam. You may find that a few people here don't like Muslims. I personally have little trouble separating the religion from the person, so I don't have a problem with you yet. Don't think that means I won't call you on your bullshit, though. I call it as I see it.

I agree with Hijiri's assessment. You can't be both Muslim and a freethinker. You might have come to Islam by your own accord, and you may think you have logical reasons for doing so. But by subscribing to a religion, that means you submitted your mental faculties to the authority figures and community of that religion. You didn't break free of Christianity. You just traded one authority for another. You were so close to figuring it out, but I guess for some people, it is easier to change their interpretation of God than to dump him entirely.

Now Baruch, he is what I'd describe as a freethinking theist. He's weird, and it's almost impossible to figure out what he really thinks, but he makes up his own mind. He doesn't subscribe to some holy text or religious leader. He doesn't even belong to any specific religion, and I've seen him arguing multiple times that God is an asshole. I think that makes him a misotheist? I dunno. But my point is that everything he believes, he came up with by himself.

When I say I am a mystic, with alternative access to these ideas that don't rely on conventional means ... I mean it.  Everyone is unique.  I am just more unique than average.
Zampa xiquihto.  Amo nimitzcuamachilia.
Say it again.  I don't understand you.

 

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