Author Topic: Anti-Centrism: Know Your Extremists (From Anprim to Nazbol)  (Read 623 times)

Offline Cavebear

Re: Anti-Centrism: Know Your Extremists (From Anprim to Nazbol)
« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2019, 07:37:14 AM »
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Yeah, I think the French are mostly wrong, not just De Gaulle.  But De Gaulle was right, to prevent GB from joining the Common Market.

De Gaulle's intense dislike of the British, who basically saved their "hands-up surrender" nation from complete and utter destruction in 2 wars with the Germans last century has always astonished me.  I suppose it is "help-envy".  I've always thought the French would have be better off without De Gaulle.  Its not like he actually meant anything in WWII.  The Allies would have slowly rolled over Germany anyway.  And I'm not dismissing French Resistance as beneficiary forces.  But I think they acted more alone than De Gaulle would have admitted.

"De Gaulle's unbending pride in the French nation combined with his personal ambition made him a difficult figure to work with for the rest of the western Allies. During preparations for the Normandy invasion, Dwight Eisenhower approached de Gaulle to ask for his formal support. De Gaulle refused to give support as a subordinate of a non-French. "I recognized in him many fine qualities", said Eisenhower. "We felt, however, that these qualities were marred by hyper-sensitiveness and an extraordinary stubbornness in matters which appeared inconsequential to us." While Eisenhower had formed friendship with many leaders among the Allies during the war, the American regretted that de Gaulle's stiff personality prevented a friendship from forming between the two."

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Offline Hijiri Byakuren

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Re: Anti-Centrism: Know Your Extremists (From Anprim to Nazbol)
« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2019, 08:42:55 AM »
"Existence is beautiful, if you let it be. Life is not a question. There does not need to be an answer."
- No Man's Sky

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Offline Cavebear

Re: Anti-Centrism: Know Your Extremists (From Anprim to Nazbol)
« Reply #17 on: June 15, 2019, 08:47:13 AM »
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I cracked up about that.  Obviously sarcasm about rightists...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Anti-Centrism: Know Your Extremists (From Anprim to Nazbol)
« Reply #18 on: June 15, 2019, 09:26:49 AM »
No, the joke is on the Left, when they propose an extreme action, they claim to be moderates.  Also they view anyone to the Right of Lenin to be Fascist.

Yes, the French POV isn't the Anglo-Saxon POV.  Never has been.  From their point of view, it was Britain, not France, that lost France to the Germans.  That France would have won if Britain had committed all of their Royal Airforce (and not kept any in reserve just in case).  They also felt that the British demonstrated their perfidy at Oran (in 1940, Churchill had the navy attack half of the French fleet, though no state of war existed).  And of course De Gaulle felt he should be treated as an equal to FDR/Stalin/Churchill.  So did Chiang Kai-Shek, who was briefly met in Cairo later, when the big three were meeting at Teheran.

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« Last Edit: June 15, 2019, 09:35:40 AM by Baruch »
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Cavebear

Re: Anti-Centrism: Know Your Extremists (From Anprim to Nazbol)
« Reply #19 on: June 15, 2019, 09:56:26 AM »
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No, the joke is on the Left, when they propose an extreme action, they claim to be moderates.  Also they view anyone to the Right of Lenin to be Fascist.

Yes, the French POV isn't the Anglo-Saxon POV.  Never has been.  From their point of view, it was Britain, not France, that lost France to the Germans.  That France would have won if Britain had committed all of their Royal Airforce (and not kept any in reserve just in case).  They also felt that the British demonstrated their perfidy at Oran (in 1940, Churchill had the navy attack half of the French fleet, though no state of war existed).  And of course De Gaulle felt he should be treated as an equal to FDR/Stalin/Churchill.  So did Chiang Kai-Shek, who was briefly met in Cairo later, when the big three were meeting at Teheran.


Shirley, you jest.  Well it WOULD take the French to whine that it was up to the Brits to save their French butts after deciding their armies should surrender at the first surprise....

I recognize your justified sarcasm by "and not kept any in reserve just in case".  But still "The Big Three" did not include the French for good reason, having been knocked over in a few weeks in spite of thinking it was a "major power".
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Sal1981

Re: Anti-Centrism: Know Your Extremists (From Anprim to Nazbol)
« Reply #20 on: June 30, 2019, 04:35:00 PM »
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"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool" --- Richard P. Feynman

Offline Baruch

Re: Anti-Centrism: Know Your Extremists (From Anprim to Nazbol)
« Reply #21 on: June 30, 2019, 07:42:53 PM »
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Better concrete milkshakes than acid.  However fresh concrete is a caustic, the chemical opposite of acid, but equally burning.

Yes, most original anti-Fa (aka Trotsky followers in Germany) defected to the Nazis, once Hitler took power.  One socialism is as good as another.  Or maybe they only disliked fascism when Mussolini did it?
« Last Edit: June 30, 2019, 08:04:10 PM by Baruch »
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Cavebear

Re: Anti-Centrism: Know Your Extremists (From Anprim to Nazbol)
« Reply #22 on: July 13, 2019, 01:25:57 PM »
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Better concrete milkshakes than acid.  However fresh concrete is a caustic, the chemical opposite of acid, but equally burning.

Yes, most original anti-Fa (aka Trotsky followers in Germany) defected to the Nazis, once Hitler took power.  One socialism is as good as another.  Or maybe they only disliked fascism when Mussolini did it?

Many fools believe "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".  I suspect there is more truth in the idea of holding your friends close and your enemies closer.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Anti-Centrism: Know Your Extremists (From Anprim to Nazbol)
« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2019, 02:07:12 PM »
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Many fools believe "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".  I suspect there is more truth in the idea of holding your friends close and your enemies closer.

Both true.  It is psychopathy, all the way down.
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Cavebear

Re: Anti-Centrism: Know Your Extremists (From Anprim to Nazbol)
« Reply #24 on: July 13, 2019, 03:42:38 PM »
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Both true.  It is psychopathy, all the way down.

Learning about "enemies" is the fastest road to peace...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Anti-Centrism: Know Your Extremists (From Anprim to Nazbol)
« Reply #25 on: July 13, 2019, 03:55:16 PM »
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Learning about "enemies" is the fastest road to peace...

You have to make enemies first.  Soy boys can't do that.
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luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Offline Cavebear

Re: Anti-Centrism: Know Your Extremists (From Anprim to Nazbol)
« Reply #26 on: July 13, 2019, 04:15:13 PM »
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You have to make enemies first.  Soy boys can't do that.

Hey, I'm an atheist.  Enemies abound.  Dangerous ones even.  Sometimes I feel like Beep-Beep...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

 

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