Author Topic: Evolution Forced  (Read 1260 times)

Offline drunkenshoe

Re: Evolution Forced
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2019, 12:28:32 PM »
Domesticated animals, dogs and cats live together because we changed them. There was a piece on how humans and dogs evolved together. They benefit from it by living with us. Same with cats.

But with wild animals I don't see that. Actually I don't even see it with domesticated species that are not used to humans. 

You guys don't have stray cats, right? Over here around the summer house we have strays coming from wilderness and the adults never let you pet them, doesn't matter how much time passes or how long you feed them. Yes, in time they come close, don't run away easily, may be rarely you even touch them once or twice in years but you are alien to them. They never trust like that. Their attitude is very different from others.

It's weird. One gave birth in our garden, kittens got big enough to play. We didn't touch them, but of course they weren't like the mother. They never got like the others. May be that one was different, may be it takes a few generation. I have no idea. But it is obvious. It's there. She is actually living around, coming and going, stays close, but she is not 'domesticated'. And she is not planning to. She paws and does it differently, if you manage to get close enough of course. (I mean the mother.)

And you know what, house cats mess up with others, but not with them, lol. 
« Last Edit: August 05, 2019, 12:31:16 PM by drunkenshoe »
'the wise man does not seek enlightenment, he waits for it. so while ı was waiting, it occurred to me that seeking perplexity might be more fun.’ - lu-tze

Online Baruch

Re: Evolution Forced
« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2019, 12:38:19 PM »
We have stray dogs and cats in my neighborhood.  Population goes up and down.  Most commonly the stray dog is a neighbor dog, not really stray.  I'm good with animals ... I try to feed stray Ds and Rs with campaign contributions ;-)  I hear Istanbul has a large stray cat problem.
Zampa xiquihto.  Amo nimitzcuamachilia.
Say it again.  I don't understand you.

Offline Cavebear

Re: Evolution Forced
« Reply #17 on: August 05, 2019, 12:57:47 PM »
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What about squirrel? - Boris and Natasha.

I can "hear" you saying that as Boris, Natasha, and even Fearless Leader.  Do you have a preference?  Well, I need to get back to Frostbite Falls to attend a navigation class at Whatsamatter U (taught by Professor Wrongway of course...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline drunkenshoe

Re: Evolution Forced
« Reply #18 on: August 05, 2019, 01:23:50 PM »
What are the stray Rs?
'the wise man does not seek enlightenment, he waits for it. so while ı was waiting, it occurred to me that seeking perplexity might be more fun.’ - lu-tze

Online Baruch

Re: Evolution Forced
« Reply #19 on: August 05, 2019, 02:02:10 PM »
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I can "hear" you saying that as Boris, Natasha, and even Fearless Leader.  Do you have a preference?  Well, I need to get back to Frostbite Falls to attend a navigation class at Whatsamatter U (taught by Professor Wrongway of course...

I have misplaced my monocle, and I won't comment about dressing up as Natasha ... dahlink.
Zampa xiquihto.  Amo nimitzcuamachilia.
Say it again.  I don't understand you.

Online Baruch

Re: Evolution Forced
« Reply #20 on: August 05, 2019, 02:03:06 PM »
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What are the stray Rs?

Cats and dogs don't take campaign contributions ... duh.  Stray political candidates.
Zampa xiquihto.  Amo nimitzcuamachilia.
Say it again.  I don't understand you.

Offline Cavebear

Re: Evolution Forced
« Reply #21 on: August 05, 2019, 02:07:29 PM »
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Domesticated animals, dogs and cats live together because we changed them. There was a piece on how humans and dogs evolved together. They benefit from it by living with us. Same with cats.

But with wild animals I don't see that. Actually I don't even see it with domesticated species that are not used to humans. 

You guys don't have stray cats, right? Over here around the summer house we have strays coming from wilderness and the adults never let you pet them, doesn't matter how much time passes or how long you feed them. Yes, in time they come close, don't run away easily, may be rarely you even touch them once or twice in years but you are alien to them. They never trust like that. Their attitude is very different from others.

It's weird. One gave birth in our garden, kittens got big enough to play. We didn't touch them, but of course they weren't like the mother. They never got like the others. May be that one was different, may be it takes a few generation. I have no idea. But it is obvious. It's there. She is actually living around, coming and going, stays close, but she is not 'domesticated'. And she is not planning to. She paws and does it differently, if you manage to get close enough of course. (I mean the mother.)

And you know what, house cats mess up with others, but not with them, lol.

I'm part of a cat-blogging community.  They discuss ferals sometimes.  Some feed them and adopt the kittens to socialize them.  There are a couple of wanderers around here.  I can't tell if they have a home or not.  My male cat "Marley" is pretty big and strong and will confront them.

But I know what you mean about true ferals.  They are used to fighting to the death for anything and most housecats aren't used to that no matter how big and strong.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Cavebear

Re: Evolution Forced
« Reply #22 on: August 05, 2019, 02:09:27 PM »
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Cats and dogs don't take campaign contributions ... duh.  Stray political candidates.

Ah, that solved my confusion about stray R's...  I WAS about to ask.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Re: Evolution Forced
« Reply #23 on: August 05, 2019, 02:11:50 PM »
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A moose is fast, but it can't outrun us in the long term.  And we are sneakier...

Nothing can outrun humans in the long run. Our sweat glands give us the ability to run down any prey, because they can't dispel their body heat the way we can, and so they'll eventually collapse, no matter how fast they can run to start with.
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Offline drunkenshoe

Re: Evolution Forced
« Reply #24 on: August 05, 2019, 02:18:37 PM »
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I'm part of a cat-blogging community.  They discuss ferals sometimes.  Some feed them and adopt the kittens to socialize them.  There are a couple of wanderers around here.  I can't tell if they have a home or not.  My male cat "Marley" is pretty big and strong and will confront them.

But I know what you mean about true ferals.  They are used to fighting to the death for anything and most housecats aren't used to that no matter how big and strong.

Oh they are called 'feral' in English. They are different. I think I even know a few feral related ones around. Just a guess of course. They are jaw dropping hunters and can jump so high it is a scene. LOL well they are cats after all, but it is something else.   

Americans house cats are so big. I've haven't seen a small or a medium sized one there yet. They probbaly have a serious impact on the nature around outside.
'the wise man does not seek enlightenment, he waits for it. so while ı was waiting, it occurred to me that seeking perplexity might be more fun.’ - lu-tze

Offline drunkenshoe

Re: Evolution Forced
« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2019, 02:21:03 PM »
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Nothing can outrun humans in the long run. Our sweat glands give us the ability to run down any prey, because they can't dispel their body heat the way we can, and so they'll eventually collapse, no matter how fast they can run to start with.

Are you sure? Antelopes probably can. Also grey wolves? Not to mention wolves can run long in freezing degrees.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2019, 02:26:36 PM by drunkenshoe »
'the wise man does not seek enlightenment, he waits for it. so while ı was waiting, it occurred to me that seeking perplexity might be more fun.’ - lu-tze

Online Baruch

Re: Evolution Forced
« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2019, 02:25:22 PM »
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Nothing can outrun humans in the long run. Our sweat glands give us the ability to run down any prey, because they can't dispel their body heat the way we can, and so they'll eventually collapse, no matter how fast they can run to start with.

Most of us are out of shape.  And Bushmen were put on reservation.  So we are all out of luck.
Zampa xiquihto.  Amo nimitzcuamachilia.
Say it again.  I don't understand you.

Re: Evolution Forced
« Reply #27 on: August 05, 2019, 02:29:24 PM »
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Are you sure? Antelopes probably can. Also grey wolves? Not to mention wolves can run long in freezing degrees.
I'm not sure about much of anything, but I heard that humans can just keep going and going and going, until the prey drops. As long as they don't lose it, they can chase it down slowly, especially if they've already wounded it.


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« Last Edit: August 05, 2019, 02:31:22 PM by Unbeliever »
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"A casual stroll through a lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."  Nietzche

Happiness is never having to fear burning in hell for eternity.

Offline PopeyesPappy

Re: Evolution Forced
« Reply #28 on: August 05, 2019, 02:33:45 PM »
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Are you sure? Antelopes probably can. Also grey wolves? Not to mention wolves can run long in freezing degrees.

A pronghorn can run at a sustained speed of 30 mph for about an hour. At that speed it would take them about 52 minutes to run a marathon. World record for a mere human is a little over two hours.
Save a life. Adopt a Greyhound.


Offline Cavebear

Re: Evolution Forced
« Reply #29 on: August 05, 2019, 02:35:22 PM »
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Nothing can outrun humans in the long run. Our sweat glands give us the ability to run down any prey, because they can't dispel their body heat the way we can, and so they'll eventually collapse, no matter how fast they can run to start with.

Yeah, "hunting by exhaustion".  But that really only works on wide open plains.  Prey can hide really well in woods.  I actually tripped over a fatally-wounded deer I was tracking once.  It didn't get a 2nd chance to run, but dang they can lay low.

Cliff falls were another good trick.  One of my favorites in prehistory are rows of boulders leading to a box canyon.  Deer-types tend to follow landscape, and the boulders guided them.  Fire is also good.  No having to move boulders around.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

 

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